season 1, episode 12 - broom boss with amina haswell
our guest for episode 12 is amina haswell! amina is a winnipeg based broomsquire (the official term for broom-maker) and the creative director and owner of prairie breeze folk arts studio (pbfas). pbfas is an artisan driven home décor and household essentials company, specializing in quality crafted brooms, brushes and other household essentials. amina was first drawn to the art of broom-making in 2011, attending various institutions in the US for in-depth training opportunities in folk arts. since then, she has been honing her skills in the folk-art form of broom-making, sharing ideas and collaborating with broom makers across canada and the us. amina also teaches the art form/trade to others which allows her to experiment and develop new techniques. amina is inspired by colour and fibers and so broom-making seemed like a natural fit.
amina spends her days binding naturally unprocessed broom corn (also known as sorghum bi-colour) grown locally on her acreage and imported from north american sources. amina binds them with natural and synthetic threads to make over 60 varieties of brooms and brushes in over 42 different colours. amina harvests many of the handles she uses in her broom making by foraging the forest for the perfect sticks in areas across manitoba and across canada when possible. you can find her online at prairebreezefolkartsstudio.com and on instagram @prairiebreezefolkarts.
each season we read a new book about witchcraft practices around the world with the #snortandcacklebookclub, with a book review by ash and the occasional guest helping us close out the season. this season's #snortandcacklebookclub read is witchcraft in early modern poland 1500-1800 by wanda wyporska.
take the fibre witch quiz at ashalberg.com/quiz. follow us on instagram @snortandcackle and be sure to subscribe via your favourite podcasting app so you don't miss an episode!
seasons 1-3 of snort & cackle are generously supported by the manitoba arts council.
transcript
snort & cackle - season 1, episode 12 -
amina haswell
ash alberg: [Upbeat music plays in the background.] Hello, and welcome to the Snort and Cackle podcast. I'm your host Ash Alberg. I'm a queer fibre witch and hedge witch, and each week I interview a fellow boss witch to discuss how everyday magic helps them make their life and the wider world a better place.
Expect serious discussions about intersections of privilege and oppression, big C versus small C capitalism, rituals, sustainability, astrology, ancestral work, and a whole lot of snorts and cackles. Each season, we read a new book about witchcraft practices around the world with the #SnortAndCackleBookClub with a book review by me and the occasional guest helping us close out the season. Our book this season is Witchcraft in Early Modern Poland, 1500-1800 by Wanda Wyporska. [Music fades out.]
Okay.
I am here with Amina Haswell, and Amina is an amazing broom maker who happens to live about a block away from me, which is super convenient whenever I need something. [Chuckles.] But welcome. Hi Amina!
amina haswell: Hi, how are you! ash alberg: I'm good. How are you? amina haswell: I’m doing well!
ash alberg: Good. We, you've got a whole whack of stuff happening with your business now and coming up, so we'll get into that. But why don't you tell everybody who you are and what you do in the world?
amina haswell: Awesome. As Ash said, I'm a broom maker! Otherwise also known as a broom squire, if you want to get formal. So I spend my days making brooms out of natural fibers. So we use a variety of natural fibers, whether it's broom corn, tampico, which is a very silky smooth fiber; fibers from animal hairs as well – horse, wild boar, and a variety of other things.
And we fashion them into aesthetically pleasing, but all about the function brooms. [Both laugh.]
ash alberg: They’re ideal. It's like my perfect combo of all of the things that I love, like functional and very pretty to look at.
amina haswell: Yeah. Who doesn’t?
ash alberg: And so how long have you been a broom squire?
amina haswell: Ah, so I've been doing it now, I think for about three years on some sort of basis. We’re selling occasionally to friends and family initially, and then probably the last two years of actually trying to sell it to ... before that, I had a love and appreciation for brooms for about 12 years or so, learning how to make 'em and learning the different materials and whatnot, but always kinda stuck to my original professional path.
And only in the last two years really said OK, let's see what magic we can whip up with some brooms. See if we can make a viable business out of it. So we're still in that “let's see if we can make it a viable business.” I think we're doing OK, but there's still lots of growing pains, I think from hobby to business.
ash alberg: Yes. Yeah, definitely. And you've got little ones that it's that ... where it's you can't just be like, maaah, let's just see what happens.
amina haswell: Yeah. [Both laugh.]
ash alberg: And if it fails, then it's no problem. There are considerations of oh,
these tiny humans need to eat.
amina haswell: Yeah. Yeah. I think about that often. [Both laugh] Multiple
times a day. Oh yes, and they're growing boys, they like to eat a lot.
So yeah. it's one of those things. It ... a lot of the steps and actions that we've been putting in place is really to ... it can't really maintain this. You can't have a broom maker making, in a corner in their dining room and make enough money to really be sustaining a living out of it.
So we've really had to take steps that take us out of our comfort zone in some cases, but take us on a bigger scale that perhaps the revenue will then reflect and really make it sustainable.
ash alberg: Cool. Yes, because you now have staff, you've got like apprentices of sorts that are like ...
amina haswell: Yeah, I've had an apprentice, I think for the last year and a half, different ones are, now on to a new set. And I've got a production manager that just, she like, my right hand keeps me organized, mentally sane and reminds me, “You need to process these purchase orders and get certain things done so that product’s always going out the door.”
Otherwise, if it was left to me, I'd probably spend ... When I feel like making a broom, [both laugh] I'd probably pump a couple of brooms out and then be like, oooh... But yeah, no, she keeps me on task. Thank goodness for her. [Chuckles.]
ash alberg: Yeah, I love also that you were smart enough to like, do the delegation thing quite early. That is a thing that at this point I'm like, I'm so uncomfortable with it that it's ... it's, “Oh no, I actually need to do this.” And then realizing, oh, I haven't written out any of my operating systems and I've probably just been doing that as a little unconscious self-sabotage so that I can't delegate because I don't have anything written down about how I do it. It's just --
amina haswell: It's ... I hear you. It's a daily struggle for me. I'm, it's uncomfortable for me. I'm used to managing a team corporately. But the more intimate level you have to be when it's a small business, they really get to know everything and anything about the business, which also creates some risks.
So I'm a corporate compliance officer as well as a investigator for workplace. That was my previous career. And so I advise clients on risk. So here I am sitting in my own business thinking, Anne has access to everything. And I'm like, oh God, red flags. [Both laugh.]
I, I've got someone who's super reliable and really super trustworthy, so I'm fortunate in that regard. But my nature is so opposed to that, that every day I literally have to say it's okay. [Laughs.] It's okay, she’ll sign off on those waybills and process those shipping requests and it's okay.
So yeah. It's one of those things that's not natural. But you run that risk with every business and I was at least smart enough to put a NDNC in place. So that adds a layer of production.
ash alberg: Yup. Oh man. I feel like we need to have a separate podcast episode just about “these are things that you need to know.” ‘Cause also for a lot of, especially creative businesses, if you don't have that knowledge coming into it, then you often just ... it's a thing that you end up having to find out the hard way.
And then a lot of coaches don't really talk about it. And a lot of coaches also are based in different countries so if they go into detail about it, they end up going into really specific detail about what happens in their country and not necessarily about, “These are general things that are just good for you to be aware of.”
Like the laws, even between Canada and the States are so very different that having an American talk to you about contracts, if they’re going to go into the specifics about those contracts, it's, that's not actually helpful. I just need you to tell me, what are the things that we should have in place as a general rule, and then I'll find whatever the equivalent happens to be here so that we're --
amina haswell: Yeah. I'm really lucky in the sense that that was basically what I did every day, all day, was look at U.S. law, look at Canadian law. ‘Cause I was responsible for both a portion in the US and then Canada, and had a team that was Canadian-based and US-based. So interpreting the law was what I did and I also teach business at Red River occasionally.
So I came into things with really good theory, ash alberg: Yes.
amina haswell: But I still tell you there's been some mountains I've almost died on. When you're really living in business, there's the theory of, oh, you've got your MBA and you teach business and the practicalities of it and you help run multi-million dollar businesses and do things.
And then there’s, “you're a home-based business.” It’s a different reality.
ash alberg: Yesss! And the home-based creative business, right? Where it's, you are ...
amina haswell: The creative factor.
ash alberg: It changes things! And then when it's ... I feel like also for a lot of us when we're running like very micro businesses that also, it seems to really happen on the creative business side. Then you're also not always driven by like pure capitalist gains. It's like small C capitalism vs big C capitalism.
And so then as a result, it's okay, yeah, technically this is best practice, but I don't actually give a shit about this thing over here. And I value, especially when we're doing things that take so long to make by hand.
And it's yeah. It's the least efficient part of my business. It's also the thing that is the core of it and that I don't want to give up. And so now I got to figure out how do I make the rest of the business support the time that I need to put into that?
amina haswell: Yeah. The things that bring you joy. And so I lucked out with my production manager. She always says to me, “It's just numbers. It's not personal.”
And so she keeps me really focused on the, yeah, you can set that price for $10, but you ain’t making any money. It's just numbers. It's not personal. The numbers are telling you if you're going to operate it like a proper business instead of, but I really love making those!
You have to ... so she's always, “It's not personal” and I'm like, yeah. She's good.
ash alberg: Yeah.
amina haswell: I pay her the big bucks so that she can tell me that daily,
practically. [Laughs.]
ash alberg: Exactly. And then there's also, it's the almost like funny side of the coin. That's the wrong analogy, but like that, in order for ... if you really love doing it, what you actually have to do is set your prices so that the rest of the business is sustainable so that you have more time to make it because if you're pricing yourself too low, and then you just end up ... or you're like giving things
away constantly, then you don't actually have the time and space to do the things that you really love that takes some extra time, right? It's ...
amina haswell: Absolutely.
ash alberg: Yeah, it's a fun little, fun little journey all the time.
Okay, so you make brooms, which is like about as witchy as it gets, and I love it. And it's also, I'm super interested in just like the broom culture that you have found culturally around the world because the different brooms that you make. A lot of them actually go ... you can find them all over the globe and they just have different names, but it's the exact same shape and everything.
And then there are others that are quite specific to different regions. And then of course the fibers will change depending on the region and whatever the climate and the growing situations are. That is a nerdy thing that I definitely want to get into, but brooms also like for me as a hedgewitch, brooms are super fucking important because it's how you're cleaning your space and just like that energy clean is ... it, like an everyday magic is literally just like sweeping the dust and the old shitty stuff out the door.
What brought you to being a broom squire and also possibly separate from that, what's your relationship with ritual in your life?
amina haswell: Really great questions. And I have not spent a lot of time thinking of either of those. So what got me into making brooms is just, I'm a practical person, but also someone who likes the finer things in life.
So I like things that are really pretty, that ... ornate, that have a historical element, that are quality crafted, that are interesting, real conversation starters. Like my house is full of them. And so when I stumbled upon the broom, I had never once thought about a broom before. And a lot of it, part of it was the function and practicality of it, and the beauty of it when I bought that first broom. That it was like, oh, this is really cool.
And then I stumbled upon broom making ... So Tabitha stumbled upon a festival and the U.S., in Columbus, Ohio.
ash alberg: Mhmm.
amina haswell: I was doing this, like I need to get away. I'm just going to drive around the U.S. Four states later ... [Both laugh.] Randomly followed a sign that said Fair and ended up with a Columbus Fair in a big park.
And there were all these really cool, amazing art events that I bought a bunch of random stuff from. [Laughs.]
ash alberg: Yes.
amina haswell: And one of them was people everywhere carrying a broom. Why are people walking around with brooms? And this one guy said, “There's this broom maker here and she makes the most amazing brooms and people come from everywhere to get a broom.”
I was like, wow. This broom thing is really strong. And for me, it has been less connected to a cultural element or witchcraft element or spiritual element. Initially it was just about, these are cool brooms and apparently people can make money making brooms. So there is a little bit of that capitalism that doesn't come up too often, but it does come in. [Chuckles.]
ash alberg: Yeah. A hundred percent.
amina haswell: That was the proponent initially of the interest in brooms and the shop that I originally bought my first room from is out in B.C. And it was I looked at the broom and I said, wow, and I looked at how many people were going in and buying, and I was like, this is a money maker. [Ash laughs.]
Nobody knows it, but it's a moneymaker. And I've always been one throughout my life ... I was a university student and I would look at a block and say, “that block, if they converted it to condo building, it's going to be an amazing building.” And, I could see development potential and opportunities even at a younger age.
And so I looked at that and I was like, yeah, that's a business. And so it was very practical and pragmatic and capitalist driven. [Laughs.] It was like, yeah, people are into these brooms. And then for me, as I started thinking how are we going to be different? From other broom makers that are out there, how are we, do I really want to get into brooms?
What can I add to this? I'd stumbled upon some Japanese-inspired brooms that were from Japan and there were more widths and for kitchen duty and some
other brooms from around the world. And I was like, okay, so they're making brooms everywhere. What's going to be unique for us?
And then I realized, why do I like brooms? And it became down to, I like, I’m just cleaning! [Ash laughs.] I really like cleaning when you don't have little ones to clean up after.
ash alberg: Mmm, yes!
amina haswell: Just cleaning for the sake of cleaning. But I realized it was that very ritual nature of the ... soothing nature of sweeping that really does something. Like I don't Hoover my cars out. I literally take a hand whisk and I whisk it out.
So it's a lengthier process. It gets just as clean, but it's because I really like that clarity of mind that happens when you're sweeping. And so I think for me, the ritual really came into just the art of sweeping with all these different types of brooms that were cleaning my space, but also cleaning my mind.
ash alberg: Yeah.
amina haswell: So to me, that's the more ritual, spiritual nature. I'm not ... I don't consider myself to be a witch. I love all witches. I love all people. So that's a plus [both laugh] and I love it when a witch gets to me and they're like, “I have this custom request, this is a broom that I see in my vision.”
And I'm like, yes, I will make that come true for you. [Ash snort-laughs.] But for me, it's really just to ... these are such cool things that help me get my mind off the everyday and think about this very simple task and in doing so clears my mind.
ash alberg: Mmhmm.
amina haswell: And so that's where I really connect to the ritual, is the act of doing something. It's like people who love washing dishes or people who love walking. Sweeping is my walking.
ash alberg: I love that.
amina haswell: I think if people can go for a walk around the block and clear their head, then I think sweeping’s become my walking.
ash alberg: So great. Ah, I love that. And I think it, it ties in so well to just like ... why ... I think a lot of time people find ritual to feel either like very unapproachable because they think it needs to be really ornate and really, just really big and it doesn't need to be, right?
It is something that can be so simple and can just be like part of your day that you have to do anyway. And it’s just ...
amina haswell: Yeah.
ash alberg: ... the way that you are doing it and the way that you are engaging with it, then having that kind of like cleansing benefit for you as well, while you are doing it. It just changes the task.
amina haswell: Yeah, and I think too ... So culturally for me a little bit, my background, family background is from the Caribbean. So there was always this concept of ... one of the brooms we make is called the Cocoyea broom, and so the old wives tale, and I say that with quote fingers, is that it would sweep that out and it would sweep out what they referred to as Jumbies, or I guess we'd call them maybe bad ghosts?
I don't know what the right term would be! [Laughs.] ash alberg: Yes. Yeah.
amina haswell: Maybe you can educate me on that. It'd be like, okay, or bad spirits or whatever it may be. And, and when just doing research from all over the world, Hungarians have similarly ... Polish, Ukrainian. And so it ... while some people may refer to it as something connected to Wiccan or whatever spiritual or denomination they may be at the end of the day, it's ... it may just be a human belief.
ash alberg: Yes.
amina haswell: There's others, things other than us, and that we need to be careful and mindful and that keeping a clean space, not just in terms of cleanliness, but also clean from other things is really important. And so I think that too, I've found has connected me, I think a little bit more to witch culture in
terms of just understanding some of the potential framework or some of the thinking for some people who you know, are connected and been like, oh yeah.
It's just, it really seems to just be a belief everybody and their mother has. But to speak with ... some people are just more vocal and more in tune with it or have spent more time connecting. Whereas everybody else is just surface, oh, it's an old wives’ tale, quotation marks, right?
ash alberg: Yes, exactly. That's so interesting. And it totally like, as soon as you were like, yeah, you're just like sweeping the bad ghosts out. I'm like, that is not a hundred percent. Like frequently I don't ... cleaning is not my favorite thing. Also I have a dog who sheds perpetually, so just like --
amina haswell: [Laughs.] You'll do it often. ash alberg: Yeah. All the time.
And but when I like take ... when I make a point of using my broom to clean spaces, it's often that I'm like, okay, yeah, I need to get the dog fur out of the way. And also I need to like, clean this space from whatever might be sticking to it because I have to go and do some magic now and I need it completely neutral and cleansed of whatever might be there.
And then even just like, boundary work around the house when there's like weird protection shit that you need to do. I very rarely have any desire to clean my doorframes or to sweep the dog fur out of the cracks that the dog ... of the doorframe. I'm like, nobody's going to see that, not that bad. It's not that big of a deal.
amina haswell: Yeah.
ash alberg: But every once in a while, I like have dreams of creepy little gremlins that are kicking around and I'm like, oh no, we need to deal with the doors and the windows right now.
amina haswell: Yeah. It's oh, we gotta, every crevice, nook and cranny has to be wiped, dusted. And I find myself often just feeling like okay, I'm having trouble focusing. I'm having trouble being productive. Is there some sort of negativity that's, trying to, impede my ability to function at optimal?
If so, let's sweep the heck out of it. [Laughs.] ash alberg: Yeah, exactly.
amina haswell: Just see if maybe we could get the air. And then I do a lot of spraying of stuff, right? [Both laugh.]
ash alberg: Yeah, a hundred percent. It's so funny. My friends who are mediums are like much more intentional about it because also they're like engaging with ghosts, whether they want to or not.
amina haswell: Yeah.
ash alberg: They’re also very aware of the fact that the ghosts are kicking around. And so anytime they're like, yeah, you clean your house when you get into it. And then also when you leave it, and also if you have a fight with somebody, you need to cleanse the air afterwards and cleanse the space afterwards, because that energy just kinda like hangs out and then just clutters the room.
I was like, oh, I never thought of that. And now I'm like, oh, this also explains why every six months or so I just want to move all my furniture around. [Laughs.]
amina haswell: Yeah. For me, it's I just want to move every six months and then I have to resist. [Both laugh.]
ash alberg: But this is convenient because now you're just expanding. So it's like moving without having to uproot the entire family.
amina haswell: Yeah!
ash alberg: So then how ... let's talk a little bit more on the biz side of things then because a bunch of stuff is in the works right now. And so how are you finding ... is the ritual helping to ground in that process or does it feel like right now there's just so much changing that you actually can't do that anyway?
amina haswell: Yeah, I think I'm finding I'm just in a slew of chaos. I posted the other day that I had 210 items, literally on a project list, that need to get done between now and September.
ash alberg: Oh, god.
amina haswell: And ‘cause I am an overachiever in bogging my life down, making my life more difficult I'm very good at. [Ash laughs.] And I've found that I'm just perpetually overwhelmed.
And so the one thing that I am finding brings me some level of grounding or some ability to connect back to being me is stopping and making brooms. And ... and I actually found that, which is really difficult when you're trying to manage apprentices and train other people, I use the broom making process as a bit of a ritual process for myself as well, in terms of, I just get in my head.
I just, it really allows me to clear out any thinking about other things or add in thinking about other things and really process stuff.
ash alberg: Yes.
amina haswell: So that, I'm only getting to do that like once a week, if I'm lucky now, which is just crazy. We're doing big build the heads, essentially make a bunch of products, don't make any for a while so we can focus on the other stuff.
ash alberg: Yes.
amina haswell: So I found myself the other day, I was like, I can't work with anybody in here. I need it to myself. I need to just get into my space, get into that pattern I get into when I'm being uber-productive and making brooms.
Which bodes for lots of problems [audio distortion, indecipherable] because it's ... I literally said, I think the next day I said, yeah, I can't work with anybody in my space. We need new real space where I can get at least a 10 by 10 space that's just mine for making brooms and nobody else is in it. [Laughs.]
ash alberg: Yes, a hundred percent.
amina haswell: Which is such a problem when you’re trying to build out a
business.
ash alberg: Yeah, but it's also it's so tricky when the ... I feel like for folks who just come into something specifically because they want to run a business, not because they also happen to care deeply about the work that is involved in it,
that it's easier for them to just delegate absolutely everything so that then they can get back to whatever the rest of their life looks like.
But when part of your meditation and ritual and like mental health care are involved and like spiritual and emotional health care is involved in what is ... also happens to be a work task, it's really difficult to carve out the intentional space for it. And for then also the others who are involved in your business to ... yes, they understand, but I think there's still that kind of like weird thing of ... I don't even know if it's necessarily so much that the others are expecting something different, but it's that we feel guilt being like, I need to maintain this as my thing.
amina haswell: Yeah, I need to do this. Yeah. Yeah. and that's totally the phase I'm in now. I spend most of my days feeling guilty that I'm like, ah, don't worry. I'll do that tomorrow when it's just me. But it's, to be honest with you, it's part of my sanity process.
Like I think if I gave ... dole everything out and had everybody in the space all the time I would be struggling more than I already am. [Laughs.]
ash alberg: Yup. Yup. I, this makes so much sense, ‘cause I've just ... as I'm like picturing my brain ahead for 10 years in advance, I'm like, I know what it looks like. And I'm also like, I know what parts of each part of my business I'm not willing to hand off to somebody else. And I'm like, you can have your own mini project, but like the, like, special batch sock yarns that are then dyed with the homegrown and locally foraged dyes, I'm like, I am never giving that up.
Maybe at some point the other dyers will be allowed to come up with their own thing, and so each person will have their own special line, but you're not touching. This will stay mine. And I don't care how busy we get, I have to do that because it's like, it's the thing that I love the most that brings in all of the elements that I care most deeply about with my dyeing practice.
And so it doesn't make sense to grow the business to a stage where yeah, we're selling shit tons of yarn and we're making loads of money. And also I'm resenting this --
amina haswell: Not being able to do the part you love. ash alberg: Exactly. Exactly.
amina haswell: Yeah.
That's why I keep, even ... we're starting to plan for courses in the fall and I'm like, yeah, I will never teach how to do this aspect because [Ash laughs] it’s aaall miiine.
I'll teach doing these other things, but never these couple of ones, this is just mine. So yeah, it gets very territorial to some degree, but I think, you know, also when you're doing an art or craft, I think there's also an element of, especially right now, the last year, 15 months or 18 months we've been dealing with COVID or whatever, so many people had more time and are picking up crafts and it's, I'm finding it's, people want ... more and more people wanting to delve into certain crafts.
And some of it is self-preservation for your craft of not sharing every little detail of how you do it. And then I see other people that share every detail of how we do it. And I'm like, I don't know, that's just not going to be my approach.
I'm happy to share, and a big component for us in our business is educating and informing people about the traditional crafts, such as this one, but not at the expense of necessarily sharing every nitty gritty component because I don't ... and I don't just do it for myself. I think about my instructor that taught me and other people who have really invested quite a bit. We're talking, just to get trained, $15,000 just for me to get trained on making the various types of brooms.
So that's quite a ... and not to mention the years and time of investment. And so I think about, “Do I want to do a disservice to all those other artisans that are making the brooms as well? Or do I want to just share how to do everything on YouTube?” And then there's no point for anybody to go to any of those artisans ‘cause they could just do it in their own backyard.
But then there is elements where it's ... we're, we've been working on our DIY kits for our [audio distortion, indecipherable.] Yeah, we want to share that. This is a place where people can be creative and use their own inspiration. But it doesn't necessarily take away from our extensive training. [Laughs.]
ash alberg: Yeah and I think that's a big part of it, right? It's, I'm a huge proponent of sharing resources, but then also valuing your own knowledge and valuing the expertise and the time that you have invested in something. Like I
joke slash not joke about the fact that I have three PhDs equivalent, as far as knitting is concerned, just in the amount of time that I have invested in it.
And it's getting close. There's definitely at least a PhD or two's worth in the natural dyeing side of things at this point.
amina haswell: Yeah.
ash alberg: So I'm like, okay, I'm happy to give you the baseline and get you started. And then also, if you're going to do this seriously, you just have to put the time in and you have to put the work in.
And if you're not--
amina haswell: It’s an investment.
ash alberg: Completely. And it's okay if people don't want to do that, like I'm not, I'm never gonna be the person who invests that level of time and learning how to like make swords. There are other people who do that.
But if you are, and maybe someday I'll like dabble in going and taking one blacksmith course, or like doing a couple of things and doing it for fun as a hobby. I don't think there's anything wrong with people like picking up new hobbies, obviously. But definitely I think the area where it just gets a little annoying for me is when people pick up something that is trendy and then --
amina haswell: Okay.
ash alberg: Yeah, they want to replicate it. They don't understand like the context of it. They don't understand the historical relevance of it or the cultural relevance of it, or the, like how that now meshes into modern stuff.
And then also where ... like they don't know all of the pieces and they're not interested in knowing all of the pieces, but they still want to be seen as some sort of an authority, either by trying to make money off of the thing at a stage where they don't know enough to be able to understand what the hell they're doing, or even if it's just, they want to be like an influencer on social media.
I'm like, you're getting clout in a different way. It's you're not necessarily getting paid, but you are trying to get some sort of payment that is just non-financial in that moment.
amina haswell: Yeah. It's more recognition and validation of who you are or who you want people to perceive you are.
ash alberg: Yes, exactly. And I'm like, if you're honest about the fact that you're like, “this is a brand-new thing I'm trying, it's really cool. I don't really know what I'm doing. I'm really enjoying it. And also I am learning from these sources.” But when people are just like, look, I'm this brand-new ... here's a new thing I'm doing and I'm already an expert and I'm not going to share any of my resources.
I'm like, okay, then what the fuck are you doing? Like just ... amina haswell: Yeah, why are you here?
ash alberg: Keep your mouth shut then. If you're ... if you can't ... if you're not willing to share how you got to the stage where you're at, then I feel like you shouldn't be trying to be making money off of it.
Like we're not sharing all of our secrets, but we're also not pretending like we suddenly just magically came up on this knowledge by ourselves.
amina haswell: Absolutely. Yeah. And I think you touched on something for me that ... so I saw a beautiful whisk made by a colleague of mine Sun House Craft, in the U.S., and very different brooms. What I've found in doing a lot of market research before I started, and we do market research every three months, just to see where we're at in the market ...
ash alberg: So smart. [Laughs.]
amina haswell: ... and there's still nobody making brooms like we do. But, what I found and what I always do is, if I know I drew inspiration from X’s, I literally gave her credit for it in the post and said, you know what? This is inspired by such and such.
They use a different material. We're using this material. See how the colors pop a little bit differently.
And I do that out of respect and acknowledgement that hey ... but I've found that we've gotten to a place in, in, in the market where everybody and their mother's copying what we're doing, but not a single person is saying, hey. Like literally we're tracking a bunch of other accounts and we're like, okay, we've literally just came out with that and now you're producing.
And then, literally there's this, and now you're producing that or, yeah, we just launched, when I did my two product launches earlier this year, had this style broom and now, oh, you've got twinsies right there of those two styles of brooms. And it's just, okay people.
Like, I'm not overly concerned because I know that a lot of the product we're making is unique. You can't find anything like it anywhere else, because nobody’s ... It's, nobody's in my head coming up with those elements or taking the time necessarily to. I don't know that ... I don't know of any other broom making business that looks at brooms like I do, which is a fashion house.
I feel like I am a fashion designer of brooms. [Laughs.] ash alberg: I love it! And I totally see it.
amina haswell: Literally every year I do two collections. ash alberg: Yes.
amina haswell: And so you're getting two new different looks and aspects, and that's what keeps me stimulated and keeps me creative in the craft. And I think as a result, I don't worry about necessarily the people [phone sound goes off.] Sorry. Replicating, but I get a little annoyed that there are some people who’ll just top on and they're like, “Yeah, and this one can be sold for $39.99.”
And I'm like, aaahhh.
ash alberg: Yes. That's yeah, that's the thing that's the most annoying, right? Where it's like people are, because it's not like what we're doing is unique, right? Like broom making has lasted for infinitum, natural dyeing and knitting ...
amina haswell: 3, 4, 5, 6,000 years
ash alberg: Exactly. Like the shit that we're doing is not new. We're not suddenly like brand new coming up with drastically innovative things. And also the work that we are doing is like very inspired and has come from our creative energy. And when people are too lazy to come up with their own shit, and then also make a point of again, not crediting their colleagues and also not, like not supporting one another, and then actively undercutting each other, I'm like, this is bullshit.
Like I have friends who we literally are running the same businesses as far as the elements of what we do. And we also make a point of constantly sharing each other's work and boosting each other. And when we're asked, who do you recommend?
amina haswell: Acknowledge it.
ash alberg: Yeah! Like we're constantly giving each other work because we know that there is enough space for all of us and by sharing, then you're doing a better job of putting that abundant energy into the universe rather than being in scarcity mode, which ...
amina haswell: And connecting your community ultimately, right?
ash alberg: Yes, exactly. And so then I feel by sharing more about what we do, and then also our friends and colleagues who are doing similarly high quality work, all we're doing is just actually growing our audiences and establishing ourselves as reliable authorities, because we're not being overly precious or protective about a thing, but we also like that ... that’s different from being like, okay, but these people are also actively just like doing a shitty job and not crediting. And we know where you're getting your inspiration from.
amina haswell: Inspiration from. [Laughs.] ash alberg: Of course.
amina haswell: It's so much easier now to be able to do your market research and stay on top of your competitors in that regard, because all you have to do is go to Instagram and look at, when was that post? Oh, it was a month after you did your post on X or, a day after you did your post on X.
And you're like, if it was a new original thought, do you think maybe it would have been like a year ago or whatnot?
ash alberg: Yeeahh! And it's so funny. Like a friend of mine literally has a follower who like, my friend will post something and within hours, the exact same thing is posted. [Amina laughs.] And I'm just like, that takes so much energy as well, to pay attention that specifically to just one person. You could get, you could have so many other ideas that are your own within that timeframe.
amina haswell: Or 10 times better?
ash alberg: Like I just, I'm always, which is also the why when people are like, “Oh, you're copying me.” I'm like, do you understand the level of energy that is involved in truly copying somebody and how it literally means that you are always a step behind? Like it's so not helpful for anybody, including the copier!
amina haswell: Not helpful or healthy.
ash alberg: No! Exactly. Get your inspiration from more spaces, because there is the [audio distortion, indecipherable.] ... the brooms that we see across the globe that are similar styles across the globe at a time where you weren't just casually like, hoppin’ on a plane.
amina haswell: Yeah.
ash alberg: Like there is some collective consciousness that, that comes into play there which is really fucking cool. But then also, it's you ... like use your own, trust your own creative abilities, and if you don't trust them, then figure out another way of getting that ...
amina haswell: Like find another medium, perhaps.
ash alberg: Yeah. Yes, exactly. If it's that hard for you to come up with something new, maybe you're just not working with the right medium, because when you find the right thing, it's just going to come out of you, like it's just natural. You're constantly flooded with ideas. I think.
amina haswell: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. [Chuckles.]
ash alberg: That's so funny.
amina haswell: I could talk about that all day. [Ash laughs.] I actually found a really good post. I keep feeling like I need to find it again and then send it to a couple of people that follow me [Laughs.] [Ash snorts.] And be like ... [inaudible.]
ash alberg: Yes. That's also the funny thing, where it's ... you can, you can see that they are following you, and then also that it's ... you're not even trying to pretend to be subtle about it. Oh my god.
What do you wish that you'd been told when you were younger about ritual?
amina haswell: That's a really good question. Really good question. If I think about it, I've always ... so I think my family, culturally have quite a few rituals. And I think if I think most of the families I know of have quite a few rituals that have always been embedded culturally. Not necessarily religiously.
ash alberg: Yep.
amina haswell: And so for me, rituals have always been an aspect of just life, I
think?
And I think if we connect it back to just your average human being, we all have rituals that we do, whether it's taking shoes off at the front door or outside the door or not wearing clothes you wear outside into your bed at night, because you could be bringing whatever negativity into your bed, just little things like that.
And then for me, so that's always been an aspect, something that I recognized existed. I don't think I'm also, someone who is also very much by the book, so maybe just the ... this fluid a bit, the fluidity and flexibility of what ritual really means to you in separation from your religious beliefs and/or not in separation. Maybe connected to your religious beliefs. Because for me it's very different ... not very different, but there are aspects that are connected and then there are aspects that are not connected.
And I think, just recognizing that at a younger age, if I was more connected and aware of that it would have made maybe ... would have allowed me to maybe connect a little bit better, I think.
ash alberg: I love that. So what's next for you? ‘Cause you got a whole bunch of things happening.
amina haswell: What’s next for me? Sanity is what's next for me. So I'm choosing me, I'm going for team Amina coming up.
ash alberg: I love that.
amina haswell: Which means trying the darndest possible. And we're running into so many obstacles that I feel like I need a cleansing of life. Just in terms of getting this project we have for the new building, which is really designed to be a shop for folks to be able to buy, see our brooms in person.
It's a new product for a lot of people here and people like to touch and feel things, right? And really get a sense for it. And it's always tricky when you buy something sight unseen and you've never seen it before. Never seen that particular person's work.
And so really trying to create a space for people can come touch and see, and also see the 62 other brooms that we make and the different colors we use. And so the goal is really to get that finished and to really conclude what has actually been a year and a half phase of trying to make this building and space come to fruition, close it out because it has occupied so much time of me mentally and physically that the business aspect of selling brooms has completely gone to the side. [Chuckles.]
ash alberg: Right? Yeah, totally.
amina haswell: As someone who understands how businesses grow and what you need to do to focus on your business growth, I spend so much more time mired in physical building, knocking down things, building things, running a lot, doing landscaping, managing, shuffling storage facilities with materials [phone sound goes off] instead of actually doing broom making and doing the business.
And I think, you know, I love ... while I love having variety in my day, I need the sanity of just focusing on brooms. And selling brooms and bringing brooms to people and bringing broom education to people. I know one of my desires is to ... that I'm just praying for every day [Ash cackles] is to literally be able to
conclude this building project by September so that I can really start on focusing on building a broom community.
Whether it's teaching folks how to make different brooms, connecting with other broom makers, connecting with people who have a passion for brooms, and either share knowledge or experience or just art. And so until I can clear all this other crud off my table, I can't do that.
And so I really want to do that as soon as possible, and praying to the heavens and everything in between ... [both laugh. Ash guffaws.] ... that maybe the stars will align in the next three weeks to make everything just lock into place ‘cause it's been way too long of a distraction. So I think once that happens people will see us more at different community and other events, ‘cause I really love that.
And this business started by me giving away a bunch of brooms because I recognized that it was a cruddy first COVID Mother's Day for a lot of people. And we give away more brooms than any business should or could really. And whether it's small ones, big ones, it doesn't matter if it's stuff that we're giving away ‘cause we really appreciate people.
And so it'll be nice to focus on doing a lot more of that. And then also just getting back to life, normal life, which seems to not exist when you've got multiple sites that you have to worry about and whatnot. And I'm hoping too, that maybe that might coincide to when life in general starts to feel more normal for all of us, right?
ash alberg: That would be so nice
amina haswell: We're all keeping our fingers crossed that September everything's a hundred percent back to normal. Maybe not a hundred percent back to normal, but some of the daily conveniences in daily living have returned to a level in which I don't have to line up for 20 people to go to the grocery.
ash alberg: Yes, exactly.
amina haswell: And yeah, so I think the sanity. What's next for me? Projects
done. Actually have a routine? [Laughs.]
ash alberg: That would be, oh man, that would be ideal.
amina haswell: Wouldn’t that be nice? I know it's probably like, a, what I refer to as a pipe dream.
ash alberg: I also use that term.
amina haswell: May never happen. But just, I would like to be, I feel like this last year and a half, and everybody probably does, little control, but also a little routine because everything is based on what someone else can do or when something else is happening or ... and I just crave the ability to say, okay, these couple of things are in my control again, and I can tick away at these couple of things.
So yeah, most of my dreams of what comes next is normalcy and then some growth. We've been really lucky that we have, we started that partnership with Simons that gets our brooms into homes across North America, which is wonderful.
ash alberg: Which is sooo cool! Yeah.
amina haswell: Yeah, it's kind of insane to some degree that that has happened because especially during a pandemic, when you can't get to market, having a reliable, consistent method.
And although we have an amazing site that you can go direct and get what you need from us, building new audiences is always tricky. So tapping into new audiences through partnerships is really key. And, Ash, I have to thank you. You've been plugging us from day one and I love it! [Ash laughs.] And I love you for it.
ash alberg: It’s ‘cause I'm so stoked about ... and honestly I have my like perfect besom broom, which is just I use it anytime I have to ... anytime I have to talk to ghosts, I'm like,
amina haswell: I need to get you a real, another proper sweeper. Now that I know that you're utilizing it. My biggest thing is, sometimes people get a broom and then they have it in the corner. I've got lots of neighbors I've given brooms to that have it hanging up. I’ve never once seen them use it!
ash alberg: Oh, my god. [Cackles.]
amina haswell: And so I started to think, oh my gosh, like why? That's the whole reason I started the business was for it to hang, but then also come down ...
ash alberg: To be used! And then the one that I got for my dad for Father's Day, like he's in a wheelchair. So like finding useful things for him that also are like actually functional for being in a chair is so tricky and the like slightly longer handle on his little sweeper is literally the perfect length.
He just like [snort-laughs] ... I go to check on him in the workshop and he's just in there, like just leaning over, sweeping shit off the floor. “Dad, what are you doing?” He’s like, “Cleaning.”
amina haswell: [Laughs.] That's awesome. [Ash laughs.]
That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I, I owe a lot to you and you spreading the word and I am very appreciative. I'm not one of those people who’s, oh yeah, they plugged us, that's nice of them. I'm like, “Thank you so and so! You didn't have to but we love you!”
And the products you make are spectacular. When Ash found out that I was having issues with my joints after too much physical labor, they sent me some great joint ease and it's worked wonders. I think your craft is amazing and I think what you do and how you connect with your craft and with people really resonates.
And I was super pumped when you reached out for me to participate on this, I was like you know, that’s actually I maker I like. [Laughs.] Some of the makers I’m like, at a show somewhere like, “oh heeyy ...” [Fake voice.] [audio distortion]
ash alberg: [Cackles.] Yeah and you’re like --
amina haswell: And you don't really feel like they have good intentions, good
vibes, that they're really sending peace, love and serenity out to the universe.
And you do that. So I'm very grateful and really appreciative for the time I get to spend with you this morning.
ash alberg: This has been so much fun. Before we end things, ‘cause that was actually a really lovely, a lovely little thing there. What is your favorite broom? I want to know.
amina haswell: Oh! So I'm torn. So we were actually looking at a bunch of brooms ‘cause I’ve got a meeting later today and I was like, which brooms to take, which brooms to take? And so for a long time, the sailor broom was a broom I really loved.
It sits on a piece of rope. It's a ... not an original idea. It's literally a broom I bought, my one of the first brooms I bought from the Grandville Broom Co. out in B.C. - give them a little plug.
And I was like, oh, this is genius. You can hang it on a door, you can hang it anywhere. And I really loved making that one. And then I ... the last collection, the Sahara collection, the Sandstorm broom, and it's got a longer handle and it's more rustic on the end and great for garden, patio and outdoor.
And it's just so simple. It's all broom corn and some thread. And it is simple, but functional and beautiful. And I think the fact that there aren't a lot of components to it ... when you're a high production or high volume broom maker, and there's lots of broom makers that do really just custom orders more so they really get to get into the work.
But when you're trying to pump out 15 or 20 of these because you want to make sure you have stock or whatnot, which is part of my challenge on a regular basis, something that's simple and self-making [laughs] and for lack of a better word, it's yeah, I really like you, you're not a lot of work.
I have to pick just the right broom stalks for that one, so the selection is really tricky. I actually spend like way more time selecting the broom corn for that, but it just comes together once you selected it. So that is probably right now my most favorite broom.
ash alberg: I love that. We'll make sure that there are links to that in the show notes for people. And then I'm going to just casually recommend to all of the witches ... ‘cause you guys ship all over the place.
amina haswell: All over the world. We've been shipping to Europe and South America. So yeah, we're getting in places we didn't think we'd get in.
ash alberg: I love that. Oh my god. So yeah, you can order your broom and have it shipped to you. For me, it's very convenient because it's literally a block away so I can just grab it. But if people are like wanting to start small, there's nothing wrong with a good turkey whisk. It's like very good for cleaning surfaces and like alter spaces.
And I remember ordering one of those for one of my dear ones out east for their altar.
amina haswell: I remember that order. [Chuckles.]
ash alberg: They love it a lot and there was a good cry once it arrived.
[Chuckles.]
amina haswell: Yay!
ash alberg: So yeah, we'll make sure that everybody's got the links in the show notes so that they know where to find you and where to order their own brooms.
And I think this episode is going to be coming out close to Samhain or Halloween, so...
amina haswell: Oh awesome!
ash alberg: So really good time of year for people to buy brooms.
amina haswell: Yay! Yeah, that's actually one of the busiest times of year. We're working on a special broom for that right now.
ash alberg: Oh, that’s so exciting. Cool. Also, for folks with little ones, you guys make brooms for kids too, don't you?
amina haswell: We do! We've got five different kinds of brooms that we make for kids, which is way more than I ever thought I would do, but I guess having two little ones that ... and my littlest one is addicted to sweeping.
ash alberg: That's so cute!
amina haswell: Like he, literally, we were down in the studio this morning and he ... none of us were cleaning. [Ash giggles.] He just started taking out the dustpan and the brooms and sweeping and actually making more mess than
sweeping, but anyway ... and he does that all the time. So I think he's going to be my protégé. [Laughs.]
ash alberg: Yes.
amina haswell: In broom making.
But yeah, the children's brooms are really fun. They're a hundred percent ... one of the things I made sure, in particularly for children, that they would pass the Canadian standards. Like no problem. There's not going to be eyes poked out or injuries, because that's my biggest fear as a parent, or even as a business owner, that you sell a product that's geared towards younger people that are gonna smash it, bang it, break it.
And so it's kinda nice having my little one who's really into the broom. He's just literally whack the heck out of them. And I'm always like, can someone get injured after he's whacked it? No, it’s all good. No one can die. [Ash laughs.]
ash alberg: It has been tested very well. amina haswell: Yeah. So thanks for that plug.
ash alberg: [Laughs.] I just think they're really cute. All pint-sized versions of things, I'm like these automatically are the cutest. [Laughs.]
amina haswell: Yeah, absolutely.
ash alberg: Sweet. Okay. Thank you so much for spending time with me this morning. I really appreciate it, especially where you're such a busy human. And I'm really glad that we had ... we got to have this chat, ‘cause this has been really delightful.
amina haswell: I know, I've had so much fun! I’m like, can we just do this chat like a weekly, just for kicks and giggles?
ash alberg: Yes. [Laughs.]
amina haswell: Thank you so much for having me. It was such a pleasure and I hope someone takes away some nugget or even peaks their interest in broom
making in listening to this. So yeah, always fun, adding more people to the community and connecting with more people.
So if anybody hears about this and wants to reach out and have any questions they always can do so!
ash alberg: Awesome. That's perfect.
amina haswell: Thank you!
ash alberg: Thanks Amina!
amina haswell: Talk to you later!
ash alberg: You can find Amina online at prairiebreezefolkartsstudio.com and on Instagram @prairiebreezefolkarts.
[Upbeat music plays.] You can find full episode recordings and transcripts at snortandcackle.com, just click on podcast in the main menu. Follow Snort and Cackle on Instagram @snortandcackle and join our seasonal book club with #SnortandCackleBookClub. Don't forget to subscribe and review the podcast via your favorite podcasting platform.
Editing provided by Noah Gilroy, recording and mixing by Ash Alberg, music by Yesable.