season 3, episode 6 - liminal spaces with lacey prpic hedtke
listen in for a special offer from our guest today! our guest for episode 6 is lacey prpic hedtke! lacey is a photographer, public artist, spiritualist, witch and astrologer, and runs the future - a shop, studio and residency for witches and weirdos. she lives and works in minneapolis, minnesota on dakota and anishinaabe ancestral territories. she works with traditional darkroom photographic processes and public art exploring the themes of history of place, protection, magic, and remembrance. magically, she works with spirits, ancestors, astrology, tarot, oracles, sigils and processional banners/public altars. she trained to be a medium and perform the laying on of hands energy healing with the greater boston church of spiritualism. you can find lacey online at thefuturempls.com, laceyprpichedtke.com, and freethedeeds.com, and on instagram @thefuturempls, @silverrisingastrology, and @freethedeeds.
each season we read a new book about witchcraft practices around the world with the #snortandcacklebookclub, with a book review by ash and the occasional guest helping us close out the season. this season's #snortandcacklebookclub read is brujas: the magic and power of witches of color by lorraine monteagut.
take the fibre witch quiz at ashalberg.com/quiz. follow us on instagram @snortandcackle and be sure to subscribe via your favourite podcasting app so you don't miss an episode!
seasons 1-3 of snort & cackle are generously supported by the manitoba arts council. you can support future episodes of snort & cackle by sponsoring a full episode or transcript.
transcript
snort & cackle - season 3, episode 6 - lacey prpic hedtke
ash alberg: [Upbeat music plays.] Hello, and welcome to the Snort and Cackle podcast. I'm your host, Ash Alberg. I'm a queer fibre witch and hedgewitch. And each week I interview a fellow boss witch to discuss how everyday magic helps them make their life and the wider world, a better place.
Expect serious discussions about intersections of privilege and oppression, big C versus small C capitalism, rituals, sustainability, astrology, ancestral work, and a whole lot of snorts and cackles. Each season, we read a new book about witchcraft practices around the world with the #SnortAndCackleBookClub with a book review by me and the occasional guest helping us close out the season. Our book this season is Brujas: The Magic and Power of Witches of Color by Lorraine Monteagut.
Whether you're an aspiring boss witch looking to start your knitwear design business, a plant witch looking to play more with your local naturally dyed color palette or a knit witch wondering just what the hell is a natural yarn and how do you use it in your favorite patterns, we've got the solution for you.
Take the free fiber witch quiz at ashalberg.com/quiz and find out which self-paced online program will help you take your dreams into reality. Visit ashalberg.com/quiz [upbeat music fades out] and then join fellow fiber witches in the Creative Coven Community at ashalberg.com/creative-coven-community for 24/7 access to Ash’s favorite resources, monthly zoom knit nights, and more. [End of intro.]
I am here with Lacy Prpic Hedtke and Lacey is a photographer, public artist, spiritualist, witch, and astrologer, and runs The Future, a shop, studio and residency for witches and weirdos. She lives and works in Minneapolis, Minnesota on Dakota/Anishinaabe ancestral territories. She works with traditional darkroom photographic processes and public art exploring the themes of history, of place, protection, magic, and remembrance.
Magically, she works with spirits, ancestors, astrology, tarot, oracles, sigils and processional banners, and public altars. She trained to be a medium and perform the laying on of hands energy healing with the greater Boston church of spiritualism.
Hi Lacey.
lacey prpic hedtke: Hi.
ash alberg: How’s it going?
lacey prpic hedtke: Good. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
ash alberg: Thanks so much for joining. So tell us a bit about you and what you do in the world.
lacey prpic hedtke: I mainly live in Minneapolis and I run a space called The Future which is, started as an artist residency, project space, community space, magical library. And then I was like, oh, I'll add on a little shop so I don't have to get stuck into the grant cycle. And now during the pandemic it has been a shop and the residency is on hold.
So that's been a little bit of transformation and then I'm an artist. I do a lot of 19th century photography. I make sigils that a lot of times I put on banners and I do a lot of public art. And this past year with a couple of friends, I started a project called Free the Deeds to eliminate racial covenants off of housing deeds in Minneapolis and then worked with a team of artists to come up with some lawn signs and broadsides that we are selling to raise money as reparations for an African-American land trust.
Yeah, I do a combo of like public art and then photography. And in those, I work in a lot of magic.
ash alberg: Cool. That's amazing. The way that I actually found out about you was because a friend went to Minneapolis fairly recently actually for some work stuff and was like, oh my god, you need to check out this place. It looks super cool. It's totally up your alley. And I went on the website and I was like, oh my god, this is great.
I was like, I need to talk to whoever runs this place.
lacey prpic hedtke: Oh, yay! I'm glad that we found each other.
ash alberg: Yeah. I cannot imagine running a residency space through the pandemic. Like pre-prepping you was like real smart to add in that shop space. But is that like ... how has that changed? Have you found as an artist trying to
do work in community through a pandemic has like radically shifted your practice?
Have you found that parts of your practice were already ... like naturally lended themselves to being able to navigate that? Or has it just been like a big ‘ol shift everything 180?
lacey prpic hedtke: During the pandemic, I haven't done much with the residency because the pandemic, once the pandemic started inching in, even in February, people started canceling the residencies. It used to be booked almost every day. We went from having, I want to say 50 residences, 50 residencies a year ...
ash alberg: Wow.
lacey prpic hedtke: ... to like nothing.
So it was really weird. The space felt different, not having people coming in and out. And so we stopped having residents once like we were ordered to stay in place in March and then in May our neighborhood burned down and then we like boarded up the shop and because of the uprisings.
And so I just lost a lot of inspiration and energy.
ash alberg: Yep. That's fair.
lacey prpic hedtke: And then it was really unclear what was going to happen. And my house is pretty close to the shop and my neighborhood got pretty wild and remains wild, which is part of why I am out of town for a while. And then, like we've had a couple of residents who were already scheduled on coming, come back and do it in those sweet spots where we're like, oh, we're vaccinated and everything's great.
And so now I'm not scheduling anything just because it's been so unclear. And I'm re-examining my own process. I think that, I'm an Aquarius and I do a lot of community stuff. And for me, the community has always been such a huge part of my art and my art making and my practice and the ways that I give back. I really care about like creating community spaces and places where people can meet each other.
And just I love like putting people together or putting people together with resources and just being like, see where it goes. You might hit it off. You might
not, whatever. And so I think over the pandemic I've been reassessing my energy levels. I also have a lot of chronic pain and PTSD and a bunch of other stuff that I've just been like, I can't go back to working the way that I was pre-pandemic.
And I don't know where I got all that energy and I'm trying to be a lot more strategic and realistic about my energy levels and how I spend it. So right now I'm, I like went through all these like identity crisises with, what is The Future if I'm not, if it's not a community space for residents? Because it was not my passion to open the store.
I thought oh, this will be a fun add on, and now that's all it is. And I'm trying to see the ... I'm seeing the benefit in having a space where people can still have access to like things that make them feel more magical or to buy local art or ways to support women, queer and trans folks, which is what we sell at The Future, stuff made by those makers.
I don't know. It'll ... I don't know what will happen. I would love to going back to having residents, but it doesn't feel safe right now. And I think too, because I share The Future with my co-witch, Gigi Barry, who makes pins and she has a pop-up in The Future. So it's like with us sharing the space, it's nice to have someone to bounce ideas off of.
But it just hasn't felt like a right time to throw other people who a lot of times are traveling into the mix.
ash alberg: Yeah and I remember looking through, because on the website then you have things organized by ... there's the full shop. And then there's also like you can specifically shop folks who have come through as residents. And I recognized way more names that I was expecting. You've had some I would say big name witches coming through as residents, which is also super fucking lovely and also like an indicator of like how ... like what is maybe perhaps relative in terms of what is like a big name witch compared to if somebody who is not at all familiar with witch world were to come through, they'd be like, I have no idea who these people are and I'm just like, you should know who these people are.
But I, yeah, like running community spaces and just generally doing like live art, like I come from a live art background as well, training in theater and performance art and just the, there, there's lots of things that you can do in the digital sphere. And also they are radically different, right?
Like the impact is different. The feel is different. The way that you are making art is different and it's not that one is better or worse than the other, but the, what you get out of it is very much not the same. And it's not as simple as just saying oh, just replace them.
I'm sure that there are some digital residencies that have popped up, but it's really not the fucking same as going to a different space and as an artist, being able to go to a space that is not your day-to-day location that literally gets you away. And the whole purpose of being there is for you to be able to work on your art, whether that is that you actually need a break from your art and you end up making something entirely different, or you go in and you are working on a larger scale piece that just needs a different lens to be looking through while you are working on this larger piece.
I, working on it from home via zoom or however else digital residencies might be existing certainly wouldn't have the same impact. And yeah, I, for whatever reason, my brain did not connect your literal location with the fact that yes, there's been a pandemic and also your city and your neighborhood have very actively been responding to crisis for ... also like additional crisis on top of, in like a really, a really public way compared to other locations that are dealing with similar issues, but in a less, like a less ... I don't know, it's not that they're invisible.
It's just that they're not as ... I don't even know what language is useful here.
lacey prpic hedtke: Yeah, totally. I think that's ... I didn't answer the second part of your question about my work and the way the residency has formed. And I think ... I haven't really, in some ways I haven't made a lot of work and also I, like I came out with some projects that I was really proud of, but I feel like the way that I approach my artwork has changed.
And also I just, for me, like my trauma response is like losing inspiration. And so I haven't had a lot of inspiration. Mainly I've been watching old Beverly Hills 90210.
ash alberg: [Laughs.] Yes.
lacey prpic hedtke: Which is very healing. And also like I'd been thinking about before I started the residency, I ran a lot of public art events in Minneapolis, which was super inspiring and I love like helping to provide access for other artists to do their art. And I think now with my limited energy, I'm like starting to realize I need to compartmentalize and be more intentional
about what I'm doing for the community, what I'm doing to feed my own art practice, and then like hopefully leaving some of that energy over, like having a little bit left.
But yeah, it's been ... being in Minneapolis, I live in Powderhorn. The shop is in Corcoran, I think, is our neighborhood, but it's been real wild. And there's been a lot of the times I'm like, oh yeah, and there’s a pandemic.
ash alberg: Yeah, right? Yeah. Everything becomes very relative, right? Where like for other folks, it’s like the pandemic is all that they are experiencing and there's that trauma that is like very active and ongoing. And then to have a pandemic be a secondary, like almost an afterthought, and then also folks that are going through their own personal traumas on top of that.
And then there's all of these like layers. I'm, I keep saying I'm like, everybody needs to be in therapy. [Laughs.]
lacey prpic hedtke: I know.
ash alberg: Like we're all experiencing like collective grief and trauma right now. And there are a lot of folks that like ... and it's one thing, if you can't access it, that is not, I'm not saying oh, you can't access it, and therefore you are a bad person for not accessing therapy, but like for the folks that can access therapy and are not right now, I'm like, we all ... there's some real dysregulation happening. And it is like, to the point where every single time you call any sort of helpline, and by that, I mean like customer service line for anything, and it went from, “We will be recording this for training purposes” to like, “Please be nice to our staff.”
I'm like, the fact that has become the baseline is not okay.
lacey prpic hedtke: Yeah, I know. I was thinking about that. [Chuckles.]
ash alberg: Ugh, god. So how does your magic act out in your personal life and perhaps also your personal art practice, and are you finding that with the lack of inspiration in other areas, has that kind of filtered over to that? Or have you found that your magic has maintained a level of energy that kind of buoys?
lacey prpic hedtke: Both. So I feel like ... I feel like a lot of times I, like during this pandemic, I turned the magic when I'm like in a state of emergency or like I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel energetically. I have fallen out of practice of doing magical work or I think because I've ... because trauma leads
to loss of inspiration and also like for me, I've had a really bad memory. It's almost like if it's not right in front of me, I'll forget to do it or if it's not literally or actually on fire in front of me, I'm like forgetting to do it.
I think, like when, during the pandemic, when there's been times of extreme stress, I do a lot of, I talk to my ancestors a lot. I work with ancestors. I've ... my mom's house burned down over the pandemic and so we had to get a bunch of her stuff out of storage that survived. And so I like got all of her family's like archives. I don't want to say all because my family are pack rats, but a lot of the archives from her side of the family.
And then I also have a lot of archives from my dad's side of the family. And so a lot of it has just been like looking at pictures, talking to them. Even like on my drive out to Nantucket where I am right now, I was so worried about driving that I would just put specific ancestors in the seats of my car and I'm just like, please just help me get there.
So a lot of it is like asking ancestors and guides for help and support, or just like a little boost. When in 2013, I was in a car accident and my foot broke and I was laid out for six months, and that was a time when like my art shifted into being much more magical and being more intentional about connecting the two.
And so it's almost like I put magic has just braided it into my art so that whenever I'm thinking about doing art, I'm also thinking about the magical component to it. So I am hoping ... I'm on a sabbatical right now, and I am hoping that as soon as I got here and I think too, like I used to live in New England and it just feels so magical to me.
I learned about the religion of spiritualism. I learned to be a medium in New England. And as soon as I'm here, I'm just like starting to feel in my body more magical and tied to the magic of the land and the spirits that have been here. And I, I feel like I think about it a lot in Minneapolis, but somehow being here it's like reminding me, like in my body.
Also my dog died this year and I think that has been such a, like a challenge to my beliefs because I believe that, like I'm a spiritualist and spiritualists believe that our spirit continues after the transition called death. And I think once she died, I was having a really hard time like still believing that.
And then I was like, this is a fraud! My whole religion is a fraud! I don't know what I believe anymore. Like I had that thing and plus it was just like all of the grief and emotions that went along with that and just feeling like exhausted.
And since she has died, I've seen her name or heard her name almost every day and so that's a reminder.
And too, there's like little signs that I think have been coming out for me a little bit more that are just like a signpost that's, “Keep going. Don't throw all of your beliefs away.” But it's definitely been like, there's been some like little mini meltdowns or crisises around, like what I believe or what is the point of my witchcraft or ... I feel like especially this past year, I've thought more about my magical practices like being for the collective, as opposed to being just for myself too.
ash alberg: Yeah, that makes sense. All of that, there's so many little nuggets I want to dig into there. So one thing that I'm really curious about is your art practice of working with photography and then also ancestors. That feels ... because on, in my family as well, one side of the family, definitely, my mom is the pack rat of them.
And not in just in the way where like she sees the value in family heirlooms and in family photos, whereas my aunt and my uncle when he was alive, did not so much. And so like we have family photos and there is like value in like knowing the names of the people in the photos and like making a point of writing them down so that we don't forget.
And then on my dad's side they came post-World War II so there's also only so much that you bring with you. And then apparently at one point my Tata got mad and burned a bunch of photos. [Lacey says, “Awww.”] So it's, yeah. So there's fewer photos on that side, but my dad was a photographer and specifically a portrait photographer.
And so there are like, I really love the magic of photos and love the idea of creating multiple altars, honestly, through the house with ancestor photos around. And I'm curious about how perhaps that has interlaced in your photography or if it has not, or like, how does the way that you relate to photos and especially photos of people and creatures that we consider more sentient, although I think everything has some sort of sense that like ... how does that work for you? [Chuckles.]
lacey prpic hedtke: I've been a photographer since I was like a tween. My dad got me into it. And his dad and his grandfather were photographers. And so I have all of his grandfather's photo archives and negatives. He came over from Macedonia as a refugee of the Balkan Wars and took all of his photos from Macedonia and then took pictures when he was in World War I and of the iron
range, which is a mining town or a mining area in Minnesota where my family immigrated to from Yugoslavia and it's just been really special to have his archives.
And then his second wife was a librarian, so it was all organized. And I'm actually hoping that on this trip, I am going to the national archives because I filed a four request for my family's FBI files. And there's like a thousand pages from that grandpa's brother, so that hopefully the archive will be added to.
But I also have, like same, like my family came over from Yugoslavia and there's only so much you can bring on the boat. And I still, I still have family over in Croatia and Slovenia. And the first time I went over there, they were showing us all the pictures that like my grandparents sent them.
But it was cool to like, see what photos they had that we didn't, and that crossover. So I feel like archives have always been a big part of my feeling like a tie to my family and feeling like a tie to magic. I've always felt really connected to my family through their photographs.
And I spent a lot of time with my grandparents when I was little and they would bring us to the cemetery every day to tend their parents' grave. And a lot of the, a lot of the gravestones had like lockets with photographs on them. And so I feel like photography has always been like mystical, unknown, like a connection to also like keeping something about your ancestors.
And so I went to an arts high school for photography. I went, I got my BFA in photography, focusing on 19th century photo processes. And there's always been a tie also between photography and spiritualism for me because they grew up at the same time. I'm actually working on a zine right now about that connection and like the astrology of photography and spiritualism.
But there's always been like spirit photos have been really inspiring for me. The idea of making ectoplasm or wax hands or all of these ways that spiritualism would use photography as like a tool for proof that there's an afterlife or that we can make contact with spirits. My own photography, I've always been interested in the possibility of photographing energy that's left behind on places or things.
And then I think after my foot broke and I also had to get real about my limited energy and like being left with chronic pain brings a lot of energy challenges. So I think then I started to be like, okay if I'm making art, it also has to be a spell. Like I can't just make something because it looks cute anymore.
I do really well with like parameters and so if I'm like, here are the rules I have to work within, it helps me focus on something. And so now, like I work with disappearing photos, so not fixing a photo so it eventually it will disappear or making sigils into photos or I've done protection spells around my neighborhood with like tear off flyers where you can tear off a photo. Distributing photos to my neighbors with the history of their house.
So I've, I try to distribute, create photos that feel like they are themselves imbued with something. And I love this idea that something that is reproduced over and over again can still be magical. Like I'm interested in photography’s ability to like strip away this preciousness of one object having some magical quality.
And if we distributed ... almost like memes can be magical. And like this idea of blessing your timeline, which like however you feel about that, I do feel like there is actually something to it. We are all looking at an image that has been imbued with some sort of meaning or magic, like I do feel like that in itself is a way of holding magic or like just like distributing magic.
So that's how I work with photography and magic. And then I've been mixing in sigils and banners but it all ends up going back to either photography itself or like that era when photography was born.
ash alberg: That's so cool. And the ... it got me thinking, as you were talking about, especially like capturing energy, like there's a few folks that I can think of, none of whose names I can remember at the moment of course, but like, they photograph people and they photograph their auras, which is like a fascinating process. And also like auras can shift for sure, but it's ... yeah there's something so interesting and like more, I think perhaps more common than that for me in my experience is like finding photos where there's like ghosts that get captured in the photos of and like stuff like that is just, it's fascinating. ‘
Cause yeah there's definitely some magic that is just like naturally imbued. And I think, especially in what we would consider, like I put in quotation marks like mistakes, right, like when a photo like overlays or a digital file gets corrupted and so you can only see like portions of the master file. There's something really fascinating about that beyond just the basic, manipulation that you can make by if you're doing like dark room style, like using different chemicals, or if you're doing digital, like literally just like sticking a filter on something or using Photoshop and like completely changing it.
lacey prpic hedtke: Yeah. And there's something to be said too about photography is so much about like ... I do dark room photography and so you have a certain amount of control, but then there's things that you don't get to control. And I love this like waiting and seeing things emerge as opposed to just like having things on demand.
And also I'm interested like photography and spiritualism both like bloomed when Neptune was in Pisces the last time. And now we here are again, Neptune is in Pisces. I feel like a lot of Neptune in Pisces is about being boundaryless or that you can reach into another time period or world and grab it and have a little piece of it.
And that's a, that's one of the things I like about photography too. It's, we get to hold onto this teeny little thing. And especially with daguerreotypes, tintypes, even like film, we're still dealing with something that like the light that touched that person or place or whatever it is we're taking picture of is on that. ,
And so it's like you get it like, that is like the closest we get to having holding a piece of history or holding someone or a place that we love and is never going to be in that form again, but it's like this way of a little capsule of holding onto it.
ash alberg: Yeah. It's like literal time travel in like a snippet. There's something so ... it's so funny ‘cause I feel like I never really think about photography and now I'm realizing like actually how much I do just like in the back of my brain. Just in terms of yeah, like the time-travel and then also like how they become almost like half stories.
Like when you go to like vintage shops or secondhand spots or like estate sales, and there are photos that are left behind and it's an entire world and existence that is captured in the photo, but there's nobody that can tell you those stories anymore. And so I don't know what that means, but like you can pick up a photo and feel like sometimes heavy grief attached to the photo or other times, like really foul energy attached to the photo.
And other times, like just this like very grounded energy and there's something totally fascinating about that. And I think is also why I'm like, I wouldn't bring in photos into my home of photos that have a foul energy attached to them, because I'd be like, mah, I don't think we need that. I don't trust whatever ghost is attached to this or is like in it, which also then makes me think of like the ... in the Harry Potter world where like all the paintings, everybody's moving.
And so it's this weird like liminal space where it's a different dimension and there's something like really fascinating about that. And not quite tangible enough to touch, but like there's something more than two dimensional about it.
lacey prpic hedtke: For sure.
ash alberg: That's neat. So ... sorry, my dog, she's like chewing, like a rubber
bone on the side and I just hear this like squeaking on the side of my ear.
With your professional work and maybe especially like perhaps the future specifically versus your own work, or maybe they're intertwined in a way that they don't untwine? Separate? Then how has magic played a part in it?
Because it's very specifically magical. But is there ... what has felt like more intentionally magical and then maybe what's the parts of magic that have been almost accidental, perhaps?
lacey prpic hedtke: Yeah, so I do feel like The Future, my store, business, is separate from my ... But in some ways, like when I started is because I wanted my own project because I'd been working on so many collaborative projects and I was like, no, I need to start something that is more mine.
Although I feel like so many people have come through and made it what it is. So when I was thinking about opening it or thinking about getting some sort of storefront space, I feel like lists are magic. I write so many lists and I feel like list magic is like pretty big for me.
And then I, it helps for me to be specific. So anytime I am trying to do a spell about something, but in this case, like to find a space for The Future, I wrote down what I wanted to do there and then I was like, okay if this is what I want to do, this is what I need. And so I had a list of requirements for all of the things that I was looking for in a space.
And I knew I wanted a residency. I knew that I wanted a library, I knew I wanted a little space for a store. I wanted it close to my house and I wanted it ideally, a landlord with radical politics. And I was like, I need all these things. It's going to be, it's a tall order.
And then I looked on Craigslist and I found this space and I emailed it. I emailed the person and the landlord turned out to be someone that I knew who had done work on my house. And when I went to go see it, I was like shit, like this is everything I asked for. [Laughs.]
It was like one of those things like oh, now I actually have to do it.
ash alberg: Yeah, there is that right? Where like the universe, you like, you literally, I love some good list magic where it’s like, you're like, dear universe, I would like this and you don't necessarily write that exactly but that's essentially what you're doing.
And then the universe is okay, cool, here you go. And you're like, oh fuck. [Snorts.]
lacey prpic hedtke: It's like air, okay. And then when I saw the space, I told my landlord that I wanted it. And he said it was like, someone else had looked at and he was going to think about it. And so he had told me that Prince’s costumes were made there in the eighties. So I went home and I took a magical bath and I was just asked Prince, “Prince, if you want to help keep Minneapolis weird, if you want a place for artists, will you please help me get this space?”
And so, I got the space. That was the only place I looked at. It's been ideal for what I've been doing there. And so, I feel like a lot of my magic is ... I don't know what to call it other than like low brow. Like I use a lot of Cheeto dust and it's not like super holy. I wouldn't say that like my altar is always super clean and cute. A lot of times I'm just like scribbling something, like it's I just have that “at least I'm doing it” ...
ash alberg: Yes.
lacey prpic hedtke: ... part to the magic as opposed to overthinking it and thinking it has to be so perfect and I have to be in the best mood and the moon has to be the right, like the whole thing. Like I would just rather get it done then obsess.
Of course there are things that I am a little more strategic about. So like when I opened The Future, I opened it on a full moon. It was a Pisces sun, Virgo moon. And then I did the history of the building and I realized that was the day that building was born or the date that they had filed a permit for the building and that day the power went out in the whole neighborhood, and so I like to think that the building was like, “Someone remembered my birthday!” and like blew the power grid.
And then, so I, The Future was in its space for a couple of years. And then at the time I was in an astrology mentorship with Jeff Hinshaw of Cosmic Cousins, love him. And he was like, “Oh, by the way, I'm noticing that the sun is right
over your Pluto today. Just pay attention to anything that might change your life path.”
And I was like, pfft, nothing's going to change my life path today. And then I was talking to Mary, who was my neighbor. So the building that The Future is in is two storefronts side-by -- it's above ... And I went out to lunch with her that day and she's, “Oh, I just resigned the lease.”
She was running a yoga studio next door. And she's like, “I actually don't want it and I need to find someone to take over the lease.” And I was just like, “I'll do it,” because I really wanted to expand the store. And so it did change my life path that day. [Ash chuckles.]
And so we opened, so we still have, now we have both sides of the building. One is the residency, library, workshop space. The little, what used to be the store is Gigi’s Flare Emporium’s headquarters. And on the other side, we have a reading room for astrology, tarot readings, whatever. And then a store that's much bigger. It's like actually like regular size store.
The one that it was in before, it was like pretty much a closet. So that day we, when we opened that side, it was a Virgo Sun, Pisces full moon. So I feel like it's been like as long as, as far as timing goes, there's been a lot of magic involved. A lot of it is like, I will look at what the planets are doing before I make a decision or announce something.
And then, I think there's also, I don't know what kind of magic this is, but like something to be said in trusting the people that I work with, trusting that the right people will find it, trusting that whatever happens is going to be like push it forward in whatever way it needs to go.
I think when everything shut down during the pandemic, I started spiraling and being like, what was I doing becoming an astrologer and photographer? Like, why did I open this business? Why didn't I go into nursing? I just went through this whole thing.
And then I was like, most of my decisions were made off of my intuition and trusting my intuition and my intuition has led me up to here and I don't think that it's led me astray and I am just going to trust that whatever comes out of it is like what needs to happen like from that like really unstable insecure point of that, the part of the pandemic was like, how did I ever make money How will I ever make money again?
And so, I'm just gonna see how this goes. And it's already been so wild that it's been successful up until this point. I'm just going to trust that like it's gonna evolve into whatever it needs to be. And so I feel like magic plays into just trusting that the magic I've done up to this point is what it has needed to be and also not beating myself up for not having a super magical time recently.
I still stick to a daily tarot pull and I obsess about my astrology chart and then I have, I read astrology charts professionally and the magic that goes into that a lot of times it's like, listening to what I'm talking, saying to people, because a lot of times when I'm the readings I'm giving are also something I need to hear.
ash alberg: Yes.
lacey prpic hedtke: And then like magic in my art is a lot more like interwoven or I will do public altars or a lot of my artists like wanting to bring magic to the public and sometimes not maybe even call it magic.
ash alberg: Yes.
lacey prpic hedtke: So just like slipping it in a little bit more.
ash alberg: Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I think it's like the, there's like the honesty of hitting those ... what are actually like natural cycles, right? Like when we look at the natural world, rather than capitalism, it is not normal to just be in constant growth mode. Like it is extremely normal to have those periods of quiet and of shift and like that doesn't make them necessarily comfortable, especially when we are used to working like at a certain kind of vibrational level and then it's nope, shift. You need to go way quieter. And your body's just I don't know how to do that.
But there's ... there, like in, I think there's this thing with magic that requires a level of faith that is like very human and is fucking hard sometimes, but like trusting that even if we can't see why, like what the end point is of whatever current cycle we're in or whatever the purpose is of whatever shitty experience we're having, that there, there is a purpose for it.
And also trusting that as long as we've been doing things in alignment and in integrity that we are where we're supposed to be at this particular point in time, even if we don't fucking understand it. Like I had the experience last night actually of reading a book and like working through is like, Money Magic by The Money Witch and it's fabulous.
And I got an advanced copy because we, we've done our episode for the upcoming season. And so the book's coming out. And so I was finishing through my workbook experience and hit a point of like, I was talking about here are some common money stories that we might find ourselves in. And one of them in particular just brought up this like old trauma that through my EMDR therapy, I've hit a couple of walls with it and am aware that it is like a really big one in my body that my body is still working on processing.
And I like ... money is very much tied into it and has also then resulted in why like eight, nine years later, I am the way that I am in many other aspects of my life. And I just my body needed to just start like getting that out of its system and process a little bit of it, at least.
And at the same time that I was like noting down for myself, like here is the immediate trigger I am feeling. Here is like where it's sitting in my body. Here's the scarcity that it is bringing up for my cognitive brain right now. Literally at that moment, then I get the little, like cha-ching from my iPad ‘cause I was reading it on my iPad and I sold a higher level product and I was like, oh, okay, thank you universe for giving me the reminder of like, scarcity is not, it's not true and it is not serving me.
And to trust that this experience from my past and these triggers can be true for me and also here is this other reality that is also in existence. And it was like really timely moment. But I do very much believe that there was, it was not an accident that there was a reason that purchase was made at that moment in time. And that I got the notification directly in front of me while I was doing that processing.
lacey prpic hedtke: Cool. I love those kinds of little affirmations or however you want to think about it. It's yup, I'm going to take it as a sign. It, maybe like other people might be like, oh, hahaha, that was funny, or maybe not even think about it, but I like to put stock in those things.
ash alberg: Yeah, I think, yeah, there's something that feels a little better about it. And it's funny, like the more that I've dug into my magical practice, which is very not rooted in any sort of religion, I understand people with religion more on like a conceptual level. Not that I necessarily agree with whatever they believe or ... and I don't need to agree with it. And I definitely don't agree with the institutions that they are usually aligned with.
But I understand why having that would feel good. And give you hope in times where you're like, what the fuck? What is the point?
lacey prpic hedtke: Totally. Yeah.
ash alberg: I just, sorry, my brain just went back to the fact that Prince is like part of your building and The Future. That's, there's something really delightful about that.
lacey prpic hedtke: Oh, yeah. And Prince is from Minneapolis, lived in Minneapolis, loved Minneapolis, made Minneapolis so much of what it is. And so when I heard that, I was like, oh, this is already good energy. And then, and then once I opened, I was like, I really want Prince pins, but I really want it to be made by a local maker, preferably a woman of color.
And that's when like Gigi walked in one day and was like, “I'm Gigi. And I make Prince pins.” And I was like, oh, this is perfect. And then she like started doing pop-ups there and then we became friends. And then when I was expanding it was like, oh, why don't you just have a pop-up? And then I turned the old shop space into a spa, like for massages, but then once the pandemic hit, I was like, I don't want to do that anymore.
And so then and then her ... that space became her headquarters. So she is definitely all about Prince. She's been making Prince pins. So like she just brings in a lot of Prince energy. And her wall is the “Around the World in a Day” cover. [Phone dings.]
There's ... that album covers like really this like colorful mural with all these people around it. So I tried to bring in the Prince and I painted a bunch of the walls purple. And even before that, the person who was there before me had painted some purple for him. So I feel like trying to keep that energy flowing in that space.
ash alberg: I love that. I know that right now, the residency is on hold, but what about the residency ... what was your initial desire for the residency? Because it also seems like you're very, your practice is very rooted in place. And with residencies, then there, there's a natural aspect of travel that is part, at least of some of that.
So what was the impetus ... and also honestly like the labor involved in organizing residencies is like not a small amount. So what felt like the drive for starting that? What's your favorite part about residency? What do you have a vision at this point of what you think residency at The Future can look like once things come to some sort of new normal? Yeah.
lacey prpic hedtke: Yeah, so I wanted to have a residency because Minneapolis doesn't really have a lot of art residencies. And a lot of art residencies, I feel, are only accessible for very specific kind of person: someone who doesn't have a full-time job, someone who doesn't have kids, someone ... like a lot of our residencies are at least a month.
A lot of them are longer. And a lot of them you have to pay for. And I've never been able to do a residency like that ‘cause I've never been able to take time off work. I had a dog, I have a mortgage. Like I just haven't had that lifestyle. I feel like that is a whole realm for people who are like, can fit into that box.
And I wanted something where it was like 10 days, give or take, that is free. It was free to begin with. Now I do ask for some sort of contribution, although have a scholarship and so basically anyone that applies for a scholarship that gets accepted to the residency gets it. But I realized that I needed some sort of like, like some sort of exchange with the getting, getting paid for the residency or having that money go towards the space.
And yeah, I just wanted somewhere where people who were artists working with magic could go and chill out. I don't have any requirements for the residency. I don't really care about people's resumes and like what they've done up until that point, I am not asking ... it's basically, like I open the door and tell people to go wild and have fun.
Part of the residency, I got money ... it was Andy Warhol money through the Visual Arts Fund, through the midway art center in Minneapolis to buy a RESO and then the first year I could pay for residents to make art on the RESO.
And then we've also partnered with the Weaver’s Guild, so a couple of residents a year can go and use like all the Weaver’s Guild studio space. I don't really know much about weaving ...
ash alberg: Like their looms and things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
lacey prpic hedtke: Like all their looms ... Yeah. And then they can take a class there for free. And so we have support from those. And then like the Walker Art Center gave us free passes and there's a couple of partners that like, there's some perks for residents, but basically when someone comes to do a residency, they can do whatever they want.
I've asked in the past for people to do some sort of public component, but also some people just don't want to. And some people have like, just gone there and read zines and watched TV and gotten away from their kid. And that's fine.
Some people have ... one person got a car donated to smash the car in the backyard. Some people have done like procession. Some people use the resell printers. Some people have written or edited their book. Some people have just organized the desktop on their laptop.
I just feel like whatever people do, making, not making, is still part of art making. Watching TV is still part of art making. Organizing your desktop is still a part of art making, like whatever you need to do to get into a place where you are feeling inspired. And like some people are constantly producing and need a break. Some people need to go quiet their mind to get inspired, to make something.
And so the residency is basically whatever people want to make it. And also like however much they want to interact. So a lot of people have offered their, you know, reading services or have offered workshops or talks or some sort of public event. And then other people just want to hole up and be a hermit.
And so I leave it up to whatever people want to do, whatever is fine. This isn't something where like you have to make X, Y, and Z, or like you have to ... even like submitting a proposal, like I just ask people in general what they would want to work on, what inspires them. I'm a lot more interested in what people are like, where they're coming from in that moment, as opposed to, I don't care if you've done a million other residencies. I don't care if you've gotten a Guggenheim.
Like any of those things, I'm just like, whatever, what is it that, is it inspiring? Or like, how can like our space support what they're doing and vice versa? So that was pre-pandemic. During the pandemic, we've had a couple of residents come and do things that were a lot more like working on a book, using the RESO.
I think my favorite part of the residency is just like how many inspiring people come through and it's so nice to see The Future’s face, Minneapolis, through other people's eyes. A lot of, like a lot of people do come from out of town. Some people are local that do the residency. But it's just been like, I've met really amazing people.
I got connected to the Golden Dome School who run artists’ residencies through there and we've had a lot of crossover and now I'm on their board. And I just have met really inspiring, amazing witches, artists. And it's been cool to have a little hub for people to come to from out of town and know, okay, if this is happening and they have come here, like at least we know that we're going to be in line with like magic and art.
So if someone comes to The Future and I don't know anything about this artist at least like we know there's going to be some crossover. So yeah, I would say just like all the inspiring people coming through and I feel like they breathe a lot of energy into the space or if I am like ... I feel like in any job, like I used to write grants for Planned Parenthood and like reading people's comment cards were so like really reminded me this is why I'm doing all these spreadsheets. These are what, this is why I'm like writing all these grants.
It's ‘cause of real people. And I feel like I can get so bogged down and the behind the scenes computing and all of the like logistics of running a residency or running a business that when someone comes in and they're like, oh my god, like Minneapolis is so beautiful. The river is amazing. I love that you can bike everywhere, whatever it is. I'm like, oh yeah!
Like it's just like a nice mirror for me, especially because I've been feeling so trapped in Minneapolis, these ... over the pandemic that like, it's a nice reminder of oh yeah, these are the things that I like about Minneapolis. These are the things that are magical. This is, it just is nice to see things through other people's like lenses.
And I forgot what your last question about the residency was. ash alberg: How do you see its ...
lacey prpic hedtke: Oh yeah.
ash alberg: ... future looking?
lacey prpic hedtke: I don't know, I'm still on “I don't know” zone. I'm hoping that ... so I'm going to be out, I'm going to be out of town through the end of February. And I'm hoping that like some space will give me a little more clarity because I have been in kind of scarcity mode or like getting trapped in like my story of like why I'm reacting the way it is.
I really need to like, get out of there to reset those patterns. And yeah, I don't know. I definitely know that I need to scale it back and that I, as much as I love running the residency, I also want to reduce my like admin hours time when it comes to anything. I'm already so bad at responding to emails in general.
ash alberg: [Snorts.] Yup.
lacey prpic hedtke: That I feel like I feel if I respond in like a six-month timeframe, that's like seedy for me. And I'm trying to think about all of the ways that I can cut down on admin stuff or hand it over.
Before the pandemic, I had a manager at The Future that could take over all of this store stuff. And I could just focus on the residency artists, like ways to grow, that kind of stuff.
I have been thinking about ... and like now I don't have any of those things. I'm also trying to be realistic about what I need to do just to keep the business afloat so that eventually it can expand or grow again. And I think one of the things with this pandemic has reminded me is like expansion and growth does not always mean getting bigger. It doesn't always mean like reaching more people or serving more people. Sometimes it means shrinking.
ash alberg: Yes.
lacey prpic hedtke: Or staying the same with different goals or expectations. I'm in that dark moon phase where I feel like I've been for awhile. And also I had an astrological thing go on this past year.
Like I was in a progressive ... I don't know if this will mean anything to anyone, but I was just in my progressed sun, 29 degree Pisces year in the 12th house, which is like the end of the end.
ash alberg: Yeeah.
lacey prpic hedtke: So I'm still not feeling that like spark of the beginning, like I'm in my progressed zero Aries and I'm still like processing all of that stuff that I've let go of, or that died or that I don't care about anymore or that I'm realizing isn't sustainable.
And for the, I have thought of ways to keep doing residency or keep some sort of community web going that doesn't involve people coming to the physical space. And I don't like, I'm waiting for my energy to come back to do that, but I
do feel like there's a value in having residency and having people like mix that are from all over the country coming into like Minneapolis’ community.
So we'll see. I don't know. Right now, the residency space is being used. We have a friend that like is a photographer that shoots shows and the theater and concerts and stuff. And he stays there once in a while because he lives out of town. And it's been nice, like during the pandemic, when someone has to quarantine, once in a while, someone is in that space, like who doesn't have COVID to get away from the people who do.
But I don't know, I'm going to see. I'm fine with not having a plan, which like pre-pandemic, I was so much like goals, my whole year's been planned out, I would have all of these plans and now I'm just like, I don't know. And I'm just like being okay with not knowing.
ash alberg: Yeah. That's all fucking hard one, but I also feel like, yeah, same thing during the pandemic. Like the thing that it has like really solidified for me is the necessity to pivot, which also requires ... it naturally forces you to stay out of scarcity mindset to some degree, right? Like you can be in the midst of scarcity mindset, but like before you reached the absolute bottom, you still gotta twist yourself a little bit.
And the ... it's so funny ‘cause I remember at the beginning of the pandemic, like I'm Aries sun, and then Sag rising and moon. So again, it gets fun. And it also, my Venus is in Pisces. So just like all the feels all the time which then at the beginning of the pandemic was like full on overload.
And also the Sagittarius just came roaring to the front where it was like, I am going to thrive to spite all of you fuckers. There is hope somewhere and I'm going to find it. I am on a militant mission to find joy. Which I think has served me a lot more than like, I've joked with some friends, I'm like, imagine if I didn't have so much Sagittarius in my chart, ‘cause like I'd just be full on just burn everything down and that's not helpful.
But yeah, like the kind of letting go of our perfectionism and letting go of needing things to be up in a plan and almost all or nothing in the approach of things and recognizing those boundaries of okay, I was functioning at this level, that was not a healthy level and it wasn't sustainable then, and now I can't even consider it being the way that I function now.
And so just like really forcing us to re-evaluate like values and the way that we are doing things and the way that we're spending our time. And then also
figuring out okay, what are the core pieces of those old things that were the bit that was the shiniest and that brought us the most joy and pleasure and drove us the most?
Like what were those core pieces and how do we now make those exist in a different way? Because they can't exist in their old way anymore. Which does involve chunks of everything does have to get burned down and not the full thing, like we don't burn all the way down to the earth’s core, but like you do need to like for ... blueberry fields every year, you have to burn them down so that then they have the ability to regrow in a healthy way.
If you don't burn, then they don't. I don’t know. But ...
lacey prpic hedtke: Yeah, for sure. And I definitely like, once everything has felt like so stopped during the pandemic, it's made me look at like ways that I was especially like with The Future, like ways that it was expanding and growing. And I was like, oh, this is at a cost. Or like what it was costing me that I didn't realize.
And also just being like, oh, I was able to expand my business and work all the time because I was avoiding my relationship that I was in.
ash alberg: Oooh yup. Yup. I am real familiar with that one. [Both laugh, Ash snorts.]
lacey prpic hedtke: And I didn't, it took me until the pandemic to be like, oooh, and then I started dating a new sweetie that I actually want to spend time with.
ash alberg: This whole ... oh my god. I feel like that's a really normal thing though when you're a workaholic to be like, I'm just going to work. And it is fine that I am either like in a relationship that I hate or not in a relationship. And I just don't, I did the hating the person, don't want to do that, so we'll just skip the relationships entirely and fill all of our time with work.
And then, again, like Venus in Pisces, I do really love being in communion with others. Also the pandemic made it really clear to me how physical touch is, like a much stronger love language than I thought it was just like generally in all of my life but especially in romantic partnerships.
And yeah, it's just like hitting the shadow side of all of that and like being in conversation with that and figuring out okay, that was, I see, that was not necessarily the healthiest practice. How do we fix this?
That's so funny though. Man. Sooo I'm actually super curious about ... this episode is going to be coming out when you're coming to the end of ... I feel like you're in your own residency of sorts.
lacey prpic hedtke: I am. I'm treating it that way. I've been, like I said, some parameters for myself that like, I am not scrolling.
ash alberg: Good! Oh my god. Scrolling is so unhealthy for us.
lacey prpic hedtke: I've only watched two TV shows so far. I've only been here a couple of days, but I'm trying to be more intentional about like how I'm spending my time, what I'm looking at, what information I'm letting in.
I'm not waking up or falling asleep looking at like my neighborhood crime tweets, because I don't care. I'm not in Minneapolis and the only crime, I think, that's happening in Minneapolis. I guess there was a peeping tom the other day, but ...
ash alberg: That seems relatively mild.
lacey prpic hedtke: And then I have some specific projects that I want to work on while I am traveling. So I do feel like I'm doing a little residency and it's been nice to like feel like I have the brain space to do it too.
Because even though I had the idea of doing these things, when I was in Minneapolis, I just could not get off the couch to do it. I just couldn't.
ash alberg: Yes. It's actually fucking wild, like over, over the winter holidays, like the winter holidays are the one time a year, again, workaholic, working on it. But it's the one time a year, like Yule/Christmas season is a time that I deeply love that is full of a lot of ritual, also full of family time for me.
And it's the one time of year that I have made a point of prioritizing taking some time away from my business. But literally I gave myself a two-week vacation in theory. The first week of it was leading up to Yule and Christmas and so I was like doing some last minute Christmas making and gift making and so my time was filled with that.
And then we had like New Year ... or not New Year's -- Christmas Eve, Christmas, Boxing Day. And by midday Boxing Day, I was losing my shit. I was just like crawling out of my skin because I'm real ... even though I was at my parents' house, which technically is not my house, it's almost worse because
I like lose the structure of my days that I have when I am at my own home, but it is not actually being away away.
And so I just feel like I’m not getting anything done. And also don't have the structure of my rituals as opposed to like intentionally going somewhere. And it doesn't even need to be far, like I deeply miss travel, but I would be very happy to find an AirBnB like an hour outside of the city sort of thing. That would work for me.
But I dunno, there's something about being truly away that allows for a lot more rest and like reset, whereas at home right now, what I'm realizing is that like the reset is not necessarily going to happen as long as I am stuck at home. And as long as I'm stuck at home, that's fine.
But it does mean that I have to almost like over-prioritize the rest portion to make up for the fact that there's not a reset, that it actually gets to happen. Yeah, there's something about this pandemic that has made it where you're definitely recognizing your capacity levels and energy levels and having to like really prioritize rest at home.
But it also is not that rest is truly just like basically shutting your whole body off. [Laugh-snorts.] It's not oh, I'm going to switch gears and do this other thing. It’s really, it's no, we're just going to sit and stare into space for 45 minutes. And that's, that you actually do need to do this for your body health but you're not going to do anything else within those 45 minutes.
lacey prpic hedtke: For sure. And I feel my PTSD has been so activated just in general and then it just keeps ... things just keep happening that are like challenges or violations to my safety that has just been like so much of my brain space has been like, am I safe right now? What's that noise? Is someone trying to get in?
Just like, I've been so focused on that. And so much of my like operating program has gone towards hyper-vigilance around my safety that like, there's not a lot leftover for actually like doing things that feel fun, artistic, creative. So even since I have been away from Minneapolis, I just have been walking around, oh, what's this weird feeling? Oh, I'm not super tense.
I am not like obsessively checking, like these like crime tweets that I should not be looking at any way, but just, I've just been like, oh, I'm actually feeling good. And it's a nice reminder that it's definitely my environment that has been affecting me and other things, but it's, I can change it.
And I think because I haven't really left Minneapolis in so long, it's just been like, oh, I guess I'm just like sitting in this stew instead of being like, oh, I can just transport myself in feel like I'm getting back to feeling more well, less anxious, less tense, like less things to focus on.
Now I'm just like, have the deer walked by? Am I going to see a seal today? Those are the things that I'm like, what's going on? It's like more, is something cute happening?
ash alberg: That's a much nicer space to be in. And it also just gives you ... like trauma brain is a bastard. Like when I remember the worst stage of trauma brain for me, I like, we could be having a conversation and literally, as you finished a sentence, I would not remember anything that you had just said.
And I, there have been times, more than I would like during the pandemic, where I find that brain fog kicking back in and through EMDR, I'm learning to reframe the brain fog and understand it for what it is trying to do, which is to just get me to focus in on what the fuck my brain or my body's trying to tell me that I'm not listening to, but it's so funny ‘cause the, I ... sorry, my dog.
With ... I've, I started EMDR midway through where we're currently at with the pandemic and it has drastically shifted my capacity and I'm like able to handle shit because my nervous system is in a much more balanced space, but like even recently I was like, oh, okay, cool, I'm doing slightly better. Also it's winter. I don't want to walk an hour to my therapist there and back.
So I've been doing it monthly and I've felt my nervous system in that same period of time, getting back to its old baseline. And I'm like, ooo, I think there's still too much activating it on a regular basis.
And although I have changed a lot of things and processed a lot of things, clearly there are plenty of other things that are just basically taking their place. And there needs to be that like constant maintenance of doing the reprocessing and doing the desensitization for that baseline to stay at a stage where then I can actually show up in a regulated way.
lacey prpic hedtke: Yeah. Oh, it's so much work.
ash alberg: And again, being a human is ... gets fucking ... [Laughing.] lacey prpic hedtke: Being a human is so complicated!
ash alberg: Yeah, it really is.
lacey prpic hedtke: You have to do so many things.
ash alberg: Yes. I'd like, you try to do all the things that it's like, how am I supposed to fit all this shit in? And then every once in a while, like I do my, I go to therapy and that's lovely. Meanwhile, I do a lot of work that is incredibly hard on my body and I have not gotten a professional massage in literally the whole time that I've been working for myself.
So that's quite a few years at this point. And I've had more than one person recently, one ... so one of my dear ones who, her sister is a bodyworker. And so she also knows bodywork in ... I dunno, she just, she's very good at it. And so we're just like sitting there and she's giving like nerve flossing, and then massaging, like my ... and like doing weird shit with my tendons and things.
And I was like, oh, you're like, you're pretty balanced at least. This is ridiculous, but like at least it's balanced. And then I had a partner who was like, you should get a massage, you need a massage. I'm like, yeah, I should, thinking to myself, like when the fuck was the last time I went for an actual massage? And knowing that's actually something that I should be prioritizing.
And also during a pandemic is very complicated. Like it's the risk factor right now with Omicron is just, I think about, oh yeah, it would be nice to get massaged. Cognitively right now I'm recognizing, oh, that's the thing I should prioritize. And then the other part of my brain is and we will just wait for an unforeseeable future at which point you will maybe be able to book it in a way where it feels okay.
And yeah, I don't know the, there’s like ... I understand also the, just like general decision fatigue that we are also all collectively going through at this point of like, you pivot so many times, and then also it gets to a point where you're like, okay, I pivoted five times for this one thing. Can you just let me do it, so that then I can move on to something else? I don't know.
lacey prpic hedtke: Yeah. I feel like it's been that like whack-a-mole game where like those things pop up and you're like, okay, now this, and I just wish that they would take a break.
ash alberg: That’s a really good metaphor. [Chuckles.] Oh man, that's funny. And so accurate. Fuck.
So what's something that you wish you had been told about magic and ritual in witchcraft when you were younger?
lacey prpic hedtke: Like that it's real. And that to believe myself. I did, I was lucky when I was little, we had an Irish babysitter who taught us all about like crystals and fairies and she would drive us around and we would wave at like ghosts in haunted houses. And I think that made a big impact on me and my sister.
My sister is also a witch and is very witchy. And she was one of the writers on that Chilling Adventures of Sabrina.
ash alberg: That's so fucking cool, but also I am so mad that they did not pronounce Samhain correctly. I'm just like sitting here and I was like, this is great. And then they said Sam-hane and I was like, who fucked that up? [Lacey giggles, Ash laughs.]
lacey prpic hedtke: Yeah, so I feel we're both have entered a witchy profession, which is funny because our parents are like, not witchy. My dad is actively almost anti-religion. So I feel like a lot of the stuff when I was growing up that happened to me that were magical was just like, huh, that was weird.
But I didn't, I just felt like I had to interpret it with whatever tools I had. And then once I moved to Boston in ‘99 and I met one of my besties, whose house I'm actually in right now. She was dating this guy whose dad was a pastor at the spiritualist church in Salem, Massachusetts.
And he was like, oh, you guys are into these like ghosts or whatever. You might be into this religion of spiritualism. They talk to dead people and they're into mediums. And I was like, what? And then we went to the spiritualist church service. And I was like, I thought I made all this up. I didn't really have any access to ... and there was no internet.
There wasn't like a way to even Google, like what is their religion about, talking to spirits? So I feel like meeting other spiritualists and having a word for it. And like people who took it like seriously and encourage me to take it seriously that like the idea that you can communicate with spirits, or even just like more broadly that magic is real, that we have access to it, that we don't need someone else to be the intermediate for us when it comes to magic, our own magic, our connection to the source or god, or whoever, whatever you want to call it.
So yeah, I feel like I would have just told myself that it was real. And I think it's something that ... I don't know why I continued to believe like all of the experiences that I had when I was younger, that to be real. But I was like super into astrology when I was like a tween. And I feel like that was one way to access it or continue to like, hold on to the mystery of it.
When I was little, I saw Thunderbirds, which are like these giant birds, they're like cryptozoological. And then when I got older, I was thinking about all the time and I was like, it started to be like, did that actually happen? Because I think, like I told my dad about it, he was outside at the same time and he's what?
And I described it to him and he's, “The biggest birds are ostriches and they can't fly.” And I remember he like showed me a picture of an ostrich in an encyclopedia. And I was like, what? That's not the biggest bird.
And so I, just trusting that this stuff is real and that we're not making it up is a huge one, but I still have to keep reminding myself as much as I like, as much as I have like magic and witchcraft around me every day, is I have a business that's like about magic and based on magic, I read astrology charts and still, I still have to keep reminding myself, this is real.
I'm not making it up. If I'm getting a message, I am not, it's not just because I want to hear from Lemmy from Motorhead. Like maybe he actually is talking to me and, maybe so it's that thing of, is anything real? Is time real? Is money real? And so just like focusing my energy, where it goes has been like something to keep reminding myself.
So to answer your question, yeah, just if it's real, this shit is real. And just ‘cause other people don't believe in it or actively disagree with it doesn't mean that the thing that I think is true doesn't, isn't true. Especially if I have experiences to go along with.
ash alberg: Yeah, absolutely. Yep. Yep. I'm just remembering all of my own experiences of that shit. So what's next for you then?
lacey prpic hedtke: I have finished all of the episodes of Beverly Hills 90210 and that's a big accomplishment. And what's next is that I'm working on this zine about astrology photography spiritualism that I'm hoping to get printed this month. And I'm just going to take this next month and a half to chill and try to find my family's FBI archives if the national archives are open and regain some inspiration and be in that like magical travel zone where I feel like when you're traveling, I dunno, I just realized there's different versions of myself. A
nd then when I get back to Minneapolis, a show is opening at MIA, Minneapolis Institute of Arts, called Supernatural America, which I wrote a piece of the cat-- in the catalog for. And hopefully as far as COVID goes, there's going to be like a weekend of events and so I'm doing some sort of event with that and doing some collaborations at the museum on that, and that'll be exciting.
And then I also am excited to come up with some online classes that I can offer. I'm going to take a bunch of online classes that I signed up for, while I am on this little sabbatical and then like springtime, I don't know, I'm open. I don't really, I'm not setting a bunch of goals for myself. I'm just really just floating along.
I've been reading so much about Neptune. During while I've been out of town already and just thinking a lot about Neptune and Neptune is so much, I just felt like letting yourself become part of the mist and just be like, let's just see where this goes.
Yeah, I'm hoping in 2022 astrologically, I'm gonna progress to zero Aries. So I'm trying to like, do all the things that are about a spark, like jumping at Aries. I have an Aries moon, but it's in the 12th house so it's like kind of underwater. So trying to get that area is like almost one of the things I admire about Aries is they just do it whether or not it's going to work or not, whether or not they’re going to look stupid, whether or not they have the right clothes, the right, whatever it is, like Aries will just be like, I'm doing it.
And then maybe it'll be a disaster. Maybe everyone will hate it. Maybe it will be totally off, but at least that like it's out there and it's done.
ash alberg: The done bit is like we’re ...
[Both talking at the same time.]
Yeah, exactly. Finishing is not our best trait. [Laughs.] lacey prpic hedtke: Yeah.
ash alberg: We're just like, aaah! I’m going to make us all go this way and now I'm going that way. And you all deal with this finished shit and then join me over here.
lacey prpic hedtke: Totally! [Both laugh.]
ash alberg: Oh man.
lacey prpic hedtke: At least it's been tried maybe is a better way of like ...
attempted.
ash alberg: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. We definitely had not necessarily thought through in any way, shape or form, but we just went for it. We were like, this is the thing, we're doing it. Let's go.
lacey prpic hedtke: I really admire that. And just like the risk-taking element and at least you've tried it even if it's a total failure. So I'm trying to just get some inspiration, feel a little bit magical. I'm going to go down to the ocean every day.
And then we'll take it from there. I don't have any giant plans, but those are some of the things that I'm percolating on.
ash alberg: I like it. That sounds really necessary and good. And I also I appreciate, especially like, we're recording this at the beginning of January and I feel and I definitely feed into this sense of again, Aries ping-pong brain, like needing to do all the things and needing to start all the things and needing to evaluate all the ... the evaluation is not necessarily the Aries brain, but looking at okay, what did we accomplish? And now what are we going to do moving forward?
And it's not honestly like lately, I also pre-committed myself to a bunch of things always, but like actually committed to myself to some things that I have to show up for in the next few weeks. And a big part of me just wants to take a fucking break.
And I like the idea of building a life that allows you to do both perhaps and gives you the structure to either build those things and have them prescheduled and floating off into the ether or somebody else. It’s okay, this is what we need done. You do it. I'm going to go and be at the ocean.
I miss the ocean. Holy shit.
lacey prpic hedtke: I know, I didn't realize how much I missed it, but we've just been able to walk down there every day. And I went and saw Mr. Roger’s house. We saw seals frolicking. So yeah, it just is such a reminder of oh my god, I love being by the ocean.
It just puts everything in perspective. It reminds me that I'm a tiny speck and some of the things that I worry about are even tinier and don't matter at all, but also just it's so wild to like, be at the edge of a continent.
And I'm like, where we are right now, it feels like it's like the edge of the earth in a way. It's just ugh, it's just really magical. Being able to walk out to be like touching the ocean. We have a lot of lakes in Minnesota and a river.
ash alberg: It's not the same.
lacey prpic hedtke: It's not, although I feel like I did spend so much time, like
my go-to has just been like biking down to the river, sitting at the river.
That's been my little like therapy in addition to actual therapy. So yeah, maybe spending more time by water and water this year is going to be on my list.
ash alberg: That sounds really good. Even if that's the only thing on the list to me, that's a really good list. Thank you so much for this. I really appreciate this chat.
lacey prpic hedtke: This is such a pleasure. Thank you.
ash alberg: [Upbeat music plays.] You can find full episode recordings and transcripts at snortandcackle.com. Just click on podcast in the main menu. Follow Snort and Cackle on Instagram @snortandcackle and join our seasonal book club with @SnortandCackleBookClub. Don't forget to subscribe and review the podcast by your favorite podcasting platform.
Editing provided by Noah Gilroy, recording and mixing by Ash Alberg, music by Yesable.