season 1, episode 5 - full-time boss witch with davis carr
our guest for episode 5 is davis carr! davis is a consulting astrologer and tarot reader based in the traditional and unceded territory of the algonquin nation (ottawa, canada). davis uses ancient astrological techniques to help fellow creative, burnt-out, over-achieving humans connect to their core, authentic self, so that they can stop questioning who they are, and instead lean into their strengths and authentic nature. her tarot readings provide the clarity, objectivity and guidance her clients need to move forward, make important decisions, or simply get some reassurance that they are on the right path. davis writes a monthly astrology forecast, which provides practical tips & guidance for surviving/thriving under the current astro-sky. you can find her online at meridiantarot.com and on instagram @meridiantarot.
grab your pre-order copy of the hollow valley tarot deck here.
the planetary prayers that davis mentions are by Sara Mastros and you can get the book at www.OrphicHymns.com
each season we read a new book about witchcraft practices around the world with the #snortandcacklebookclub, with a book review by ash and the occasional guest helping us close out the season. this season's #snortandcacklebookclub read is witchcraft in early modern poland 1500-1800 by wanda wyporska.
take the fibre witch quiz at ashalberg.com/quiz. follow us on instagram @snortandcackle and be sure to subscribe via your favourite podcasting app so you don't miss an episode!
seasons 1-3 of snort & cackle are generously supported by the manitoba arts council.
transcript
snort & cackle - season 1, episode 5
ash alberg: [00:00:00] [Upbeat music plays in the background.] Hello, and welcome to the Snort and Cackle podcast. I'm your host Ash Alberg. I'm a queer fibre witch and hedge witch, and each week I interview a fellow boss witch to discuss how everyday magic helps them make their life and the wider world a better place.
Expect serious discussions about intersections of privilege and oppression, big C versus small C capitalism, rituals, sustainability, astrology, ancestral work, and a whole lot of snorts and cackles. Each season, we read a new book about witchcraft practices around the world with the #SnortAndCackleBookClub with a book review by me and the occasional guest helping us close out the season. Our book this season is Witchcraft in Early Modern Poland, 1500-1800 by Wanda Wyporska.
[Ash hums along with the music.]
I am here today with my friend Davis Carr. Davis is a consulting astrologer and tarot reader based in the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin nation in Ottawa, Canada. Davis uses ancient astrolo ... Bluh luh bluh luh I'm going re-do that! Bleh!
I am here today with my friend Davis Carr. Davis is a consulting astrologer and tarot reader based in the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin nation. Davis uses ancient astrological techniques to help fellow creative, burnt-out, overachieving humans, like me, and probably you, connect to their core, authentic self so that they can stop questioning who they are and instead lean into their strengths and authentic nature.
Her tarot readings provide the clarity, objectivity and guidance her clients need to move forward, make important decisions, or simply get some reassurance that they are on the right path. Davis writes a monthly astrology forecast, which provides practical tips and guidance for surviving and thriving under the current astro sky. You can find those on her website, meridiantarot.com. Hi Davis! [Giggles.]
davis carr: [00:02:18] Hi Ash! I'm so excited to be here with you!
ash alberg: [00:02:21] I’m so excited that you're here. And I should say that the extra exciting thing about us having a chat is that you are fairly recently a full-time witch! So I guess I'll let you expand on that a bit, but tell us a bit about who you are and what you do in the world and how you came to be a full-time witch.
davis carr: [00:02:41] I know, this is a very exciting experience for me. This is my first or second interview, I think, as a full-time witch! So it's a very fresh experience for me. But I have been doing tarot and astrology, practicing my business as a consulting astrologer and reader for, officially, I guess two years now.
I started Meridian Tarot officially in February of 2019 but like so many others, I was reading for friends in coffee shops and coworkers on our lunch break for a year or so before that as I worked at my experience and yeah, gained that expertise.
Astrology and tarot are really the core things that I do and they were really the two things that I first fell in love with when magic came into my life. I am somebody who came from a very Atheist and secular background. My parents explicitly did not raise ... raise us with any kind of religion. I remember my mom getting upset when I was a kid and my grandma took me to church one time and she was like, no, that is not happening. [Ash laughs.]
This is not acceptable. So I did my undergraduate in philosophy and English. And so I really ... and I wrote my undergraduate research paper, my thesis, and my master's thesis is all about media and technology and feminism. I wrote my master's thesis on selfies, which is a very fun topic to explore ...
ash alberg: [00:04:15] I love that so much because I think selfies are just like the most fantastic “fuck you” to like just mainstream media and the messages that we receive. Like I, yeah. I think selfies are so fucking powerful.
davis carr: [00:04:28] Exactly. Yeah.
That basically was the crest of my thesis, how we are creating our own image using this technology. But I really had a vision for my life that was, get a good job in communications because that's what I do. I write. And I create. And forever I've been playing on Photoshop and doing design and making websites.
And so when I graduated university, I ... at some point I realized, oh, the keyword I search on job websites is marketing in order to do ... get the jobs. So I really just had this vision for my life that was, go to an office, nine to five. Do ... you know, give back to the world but also get your steady paycheck and save up your money and buy a house eventually and settle down.
And astrology and tarot came into my life around the fall of 2015, early 2016, when I was going through a huge turning point in my life. I finished my master's degree and I was living in Toronto and then I unexpectedly got a job back in Ottawa, my hometown.
And so it was a two month contract to do communications for a non-profit group during the federal election of 2015. And it was my dream job. Like it was exactly what I wanted. Paid really stupidly well for what I was at being asked to do. [Ash chuckles.] And I really, I made the choice to uproot my entire life.
I'd moved to Toronto with every intention of staying there long-term and building my career there. But I made the choice to come back to Ottawa and it sent real ripples throughout my life. And it really, it caused a lot of problems in my friendships. I didn't have a lot of ... I had some friends back in Ottawa, but it was, it just was such a big turning point.
I really created my foundations in Toronto and then suddenly I was in this new situation and ... new but old. And it was really, yeah, like very confusing. And so two important things happened around this time: one, I made a friend with somebody who works in at that new job who did tarot and she was this cool, progressive feminist social justice activisty person who also did tarot and was into witchy things.
And that ... I ... that was my first moment of interacting with tarot or anything occult beyond just seeing tarot cards in movies or like that kind of stereotypical thing. And also around this time, I mean, the general zeitgeist in our culture, just like, tarot blew up and astrology started to get more and more mainstream.
And so, the Instagram algorithm really did me a solid [Ash snorts] and eventually connected me with Chani Nicholas’ work. And just, so this would have been, it really was in 2016 that I started buying Chani Nicholas’ new moon workshops. And when I moved out the summer of 2016, I moved into my first apartment in Ottawa on my own.
I've lived in Halifax and Toronto with roommates and everything, but this was my first time living in Ottawa as an independent adult with my full-time steady job, like really building my life. And at that point I started doing Chani Nicholas's new moon workshops. And in that format, she goes over all of the transits for the nation, the month ahead.
She does it based on rising signs, so she gives you a sense of, okay, this is what's going to happen in this area of your life. And listening to those lectures, I didn't know anything about astrology. I didn't really understand what a natal chart was until her instructions for how to go look one up ... [Ash giggles] ... but I just started reading and listening and it felt like remembering an ancient language that was in my bones. The patterns and the symbolism and the way all of the images work together just really spoke to me.
And, as they say, the rest is history, [Ash chuckles.] I just ... studying, I kept learning. I kept growing. And there comes a point when you are working with a divination practice where there's only so far you can get on your own. Your mind plays tricks on you. Your anxiety gets in the way.
There's only so much relationship you can build with, I think, tarot especially where it's ... it is meant to be shared and it is meant to be done and in practice and in conversation with others. And so once I felt like I had a really solid understanding of the cards, I really felt that the next step was to bring my work to other people and to do ... be in that reader space.
So I just kept growing the business and practicing and trying and doing trainings and coaching and developing my business acumen until the point where I just couldn't keep doing both. So I decided to choose astrology.
ash alberg: [00:09:42] Fun. We are all so glad that you did. I, yeah, I love it so much. And I also, I really appreciate the fact that you didn't do this your whole life.
I think, especially for me, I mean, I got my reading from you for the year ahead at the beginning of this calendar year. And honestly I had to then go and get multiple tarot spreads also for the year to put it into something more solid for me, because your knowledge is like so much for ... I am at the point with tarot, or not with tarot, with astrology where I know enough to know that I know very little, and that is a terrifying space to be at because you're like, like beginners, you're just like, everything comes in and you're just soaking it all in, but you don't understand the nuance yet. And so it is, you're just like constantly feeling like really buoyed by just yeah, I got all this new knowledge!
This is great. And then you hit that point where you're like, oh fuck. It is like so much more than I thought it was. And now I don't know anything. And it feels like you like backslide massively and it is a terrifying space to be because it's like, it just suddenly feels ... I mean, it's astrology. So it's the universe. Everything is so much bigger!
And I mean, I appreciate the fact that ... so much, and you're able to really like ground things down. And I literally have in my planner, like, days written out where you're like, “This is important. No, this thing, like this is a day where you're going to be extra sensitive. Like maybe watch those emails,” and like being able to put that into like tangible things, which is really useful.
But also just the kind of having the knowledge and like the heads up of, these are some themes that you're likely going to be seeing. And based on where things are at in your chart, it's probably going to show up in this particular area of your life.
And I am not at a point yet where I can read what the fuck's happening in the sky and be like, oh, this is going to happen over here. But I do really appreciate that you are my friend and I can be like, DAVIS! I am feeling this thing! What is the astro weather saying? And you're like, “Well it says this and this is why.” I'm like, okay. [Laughs.]
davis carr: [00:12:00] I am, I am so honored to be that person for people. I love playing that role. And there actually are ... as an astrologer, you do have to really cultivate boundaries around not astrologizing everything, because it isn't that helpful. If you are sharing in our ... texting me and saying “Oh, I'm feeling really upset at this moment,” like, my first job should be as a friend to support you through that, not go, oh Mars is on your ascendant. [Ash snorts.] Daaamn! [Joking.]
Like it's not all, but then there ... but also I understand that it can be really helpful. There is a great moment to be like, “Oh the reason why I'm feeling this is reflected in the sky and also it will be over next week.” Or it will ... this is a two-year long cycle that I'm going to keep revisiting over and over again, and being able to have both levels of, okay, this is my macro cosmic journey that I'm going through. This is my big picture versus, oh, the moon is doing something to make me cry today, but I will feel better in six hours. Like that's a really helpful differentiation.
ash alberg: [00:13:14] A hundred percent.
davis carr: [00:13:15] That’s part of the role of an astrologer.
ash alberg: [00:13:17] Ah! Yes! That makes so much sense because yeah, like that is the thing right? Where it's like, there are some themes that we know are happening in my chart. And so it's, okay, we're coming back to this. And you definitely, you dealt with this, you got a little bit more info on that message, you're going to come back to it another three months, like just prepare.
And, and I mean, eclipse season! Being like, okay, we're in eclipse season. And so just be prepped for that, but then also knowing that something, like, something is coming next. Like you're not just stuck in this moment where whether you feel like it is good or bad, and I'm
putting those in quotations, but like whether it's easy or hard or joyful, or so much grief, like these are just moments and you will move on to the next moment and the next sensation and lesson, all of that. I will say, I am not necessarily stoked about the fact that like we discussed my love life and it was like, it's going to just keep being hard, but next year it'll settle.
Can I fast forward to next year? That would be real nice, but it is also nice to know that like next year things are looking up rather than like in 20 years, you're going to find your human and it'll be the most beautiful thing. I’m like, fuck. [Snort-laughs.]
Oh man. So ...
davis carr: [00:14:28] I do ... but before we move on, I do want to speak to something you said earlier around that feeling of overwhelm that you get, because this is something people talk to me about all the time. And I think it's something that really stops people from moving forward with astrology. And so I really want to validate and normalize that feeling of, oh my gosh, there is so much more than I can ever understand, because I feel that way all the fucking time. It is part of the process!
And I actually, there was a moment in the astrology training that I did a couple of years ago where my teacher actually explicitly talked about this. And in his words, that moment when you realize oh, I know things, oh my gosh, I know nothing! That is astrology doing its magic. That is you learning.
That is ... the information slowly integrates. And it's like learning any language where those stumbling blocks ... where at first you’re like, oh, is mercury an earth sign or a water sign? Or no, Mercury is not even a sign! What's a mutable sign? Which what comes after Pisces? Those sort of ABCs just ... eventually you memorize them and they become second nature and the energies and the lessons really just integrate into your very being so that when you start learning those extra techniques and you start learning even more. It really layers over time.
I like to think about it as you are a sponge being plunged into the ocean. [Ash laughs.] You can't contain it all!
ash alberg: [00:16:09] Oh, that's such a good analogy!
davis carr: [00:16:10] Right?
ash alberg: [00:16:11] Yes. I also really love the ...
davis carr: [00:16:13] Like you come up and then you get wringed out and then you get filled up once more. And that's just how you grow.
ash alberg: [00:16:20] Yeah, that's super lovely. I also really liked the comparison of it being a language, because it is right? It's a new vocabulary that you are learning and that you are integrating into your body and into your mind and into just everything and yeah. Eventually it does become second nature and you just keep building.
I remember the point where I suddenly like, when I became aware of Venus signs, I was like, ooooohhhh! And so now it's ... I slowly built ... I would say I have a pretty solid understanding of six of ... I still don't know what the fuck is happening with the houses, but like the rising and sun and moon, and then Venus, Mercury and Mars, I'm like, okay, I understand these.
And when somebody tells me, “I'm this in my chart” or they'll ... my favorite is when people just give you their sun sign and I'm like, huh. And what else do you have? [Laughs.]
davis carr: [00:17:10] I know, especially around like comparing people. They're like, oh, all of these sun signs. And that is just one of so many factors.
ash alberg: [00:17:19] Yup. Yup. And I ... davis carr: [00:17:20] I need the whole chart.
ash alberg: [00:17:21] Yes. And I really love seeing like how people embody different parts of their signs and then also ... and of their charts. And then depending on your relationship with them, like what aspect you see most frequently. And I mean for me, I am quite intuitive. And so I will watch people and I especially see, I mean, their moon sign is just, that's ... I don't, I skip the sun, I just see moon.
And then ... but I also become like very attuned to what their Venus sign is, and when their Venus sign comes out and when it doesn't and like when their Mercury sign is at play. It's just, it's so interesting to me. And I don't, I there's folks who are like what's your sign? Well, we're not going to get on.
And I'm like, that's not actually a helpful way of applying it. But I do think that our charts can give us a lot of information in terms of, what's your baseline? And if there is conflict, what are likely ways of being able to approach that conflict? Like my Mars is in Taurus, so like when you combine that with being a triple sun, like, I'm a bit of an asshole. [Snorts.] [Both laugh.]
And so you’ve just got to give me some time, explain it really well and convince me, and then I will change my mind, but I'm not just going to go nice and easy breezy on with whatever the fuck you're telling me is the best idea. Like I'm going to challenge your best idea if it doesn't align with what I think.
davis carr: [00:18:43] Meanwhile, I have Mars ... I have a Mars-moon conjunction in Gemini, which means that my style of fighting is, I will blow up and get very upset and then just calm down immediately. [Ash cackles.] Like it's very all over the place. And also extremely like emotionally volatile because the moon's up in there, like getting all upset too.
And then if I feel wounded the Mars comes out to defend it. [Ash laughs.] And so knowing that about you and if we're, if we are friends and we're ... or collaborators, and we're trying to get through, my understanding of your Mars in Taurus, it's really helpful because I know okay, this is how you're going to fight. I just need to take some time, like for 10 minutes, and Ash will get back to me in two hours when they're ready for it. [Both laugh.]
ash alberg: [00:19:33] Yes. And I think, honestly as I'm like thinking forward to hiring staff, I'm like, I'm gonna need you to provide me with your birth chart. So that ... just so that I have like a heads’ up of, this is what we're dealing with. ‘Cause that'll just make it a little easier. I think, in my brain, it'll make it easier. In reality who the fuck knows, but ...
davis carr: [00:19:50] That's an idea I definitely have for work, future workshops and things like that is around how we can use astrology in the workplace and knowing those things and like how that can help us work better. One of many ideas I have for the future.
ash alberg: [00:20:04] I'm so stoked. I'm signing up for that whenever you do it. So how does ritual and magic and divination play into your day-to-day life?
davis carr: [00:20:16] Oh my gosh. I mean, they just are my day-to-day life. It feels like ritual and magic is the structure with which I use to live my life and sort of the containers that I use in order to help me structure my time and get into the right workflow. There's a lot of like routine and grounded-ness especially now that I am not in the nine-to-five world. I'm in this free fall.
Like I very much feel like I have taken all the structures away in my business and now I really have to practice prioritizing things based on what my actual needs are and get out of that treadmill loop around like the harder I work, I will get paid more or I will be more productive and yeah. Like it's a very, as I'm sure ... it's a tough thing to try to disentangle this, like, productivity and revenue and all of those things.
So I'm really ... right now, I like ... a couple of things that I'm doing to bring structure and grounded-ness into my life through ritual is really working with planetary days and especially planetary ... So, planetary days are basically the concept, like the ... our names for the days of the week, come from the names of the gods. Specifically the English ones come from Norse, but if you look, like, French is the easiest one for me. If you like ... Lundi is the moon, Mardi is Mars, Mercredi is Mercury. Like it's all very there.
ash alberg: [00:21:54] That's very simple. Oh, I totally didn't even make that connection, even though ...
davis carr: Yeah!
ash alberg: Like, I have studied the wandering bodies and like, the way that like the alchemists just applied all these things, which is so fun and nerdy, but yeah. French is like, here you are!
davis carr: [00:22:09] Yeah.
The romance languages, they're right there, right, because they come from the Latin. So it's been really helpful for me like, as an entrepreneur and a business owner, to be able to say okay, Saturday, ruled by Saturn. Saturn is about discipline, hard work, structures. So that's a really great day to do chores around the house.
Like all of those things that I like to avoid, get them done on Saturday. Do the hard work and be diligent. So annoying. Whereas Sunday connected to the sun is much more ... in ancient
astrology, the sun was really connected to the idea of god, oneness, and whatever. I mean, that's why we got people go to church on Sundays, because of the god thing.
And so on that day, I like to use it as a time to reflect, to restore, do my own personal research and things like that. My own personal connections. Monday, I like to ... which is ruled by the moon. I like to focus more on self-care things, like really setting myself up for the week. Tuesday, I really like for just a “get shit done” kind of energy with the Mars rulership.
And there was there's lots of layers that you can add on. There's planetary hours, which is a way of dividing up the day based on different planets, depending on when sunrise is. And so you could do a prayer to Saturn on Saturn's hour on Saturday for like extra Saturn goodness. I'm trying to keep it a little bit light-touched because there is a certain point where you just start ... it's a procrastination technique and it's not actually that helpful.
So I have really just been trying to start my workdays with doing a ... lighting a candle, burning some herbs, sitting in meditation, and then I read an orphic hymn a to whatever god of the planetary day of the week. And I found an amazing resource through Diana Rose Harper ... The name of the author escapes me right now, but I will send you the link afterwards, so put it in the show notes ... That is a modern writing of some of the orphic hymns in more natural English language.
So I, every single morning for the past couple of weeks or most mornings I sit, I read out the hymn, the prayer to the planet. And then I just sit a little bit and then I go about my day. I also try to bring in magical tools like crystals, candles, tarot cards, Oracle cards, and have them set up next to my desk as a little altar to represent the things that I'm working on.
If I'm writing a blog post, it's going to be creativity. If I'm doing accounting, it'll be about financial security or something like that. Yeah, just really trying to find small ways to make my business feel a little bit more magical. But that are also just useful focus and productivity techniques.
ash alberg: [00:25:00] Totally. Oh, I love that so much. I mean, you're totally making me think. So, I have been ... last month I took time away from social media and by that I mean I prescheduled fucking everything, which was great. And I am now continuing with that because the brain space is amazing and necessary. It is very hard to focus on financial health of your business and forecasting when you are also thinking about, what do I post on Instagram today?
But part of that involved then like moving my desk and creating like a new office space for myself in my house, which is feeling good, but it is still ... there's literally a pile of shit sitting in front of me while I talk to you. And I keep meaning to organize my desk and make it ... honestly, make it photography worthy, [snorts] but also make it like less cluttered and more useful and give my brain some extra space.
And you are making me think about how important it is to actually like ... ‘cause I have altars scattered around the house, but actually like having an altar in front of me would be very beneficial and it's making me think maybe I should move my abundance altar in front of me or create a second one, maybe secondary one.
I like that idea. Cool. I love that. And I love the idea of yeah, just like honoring the days of the week. It's so funny because I often think of days less about their planetary uses, although there was definitely some overlap there, and ... they more have colors to me. So different days of the week have a different color in my brain, which then definitely overlap with the way that I typically tend to feel on those days.
And yeah, it's interesting to think of like ... Saturday is a day that I often, I do work harder. I tend to be working harder in my business than I do on like life shit, but it also tends to be the day where I'm like, okay, I'm going to ... I actually have energy to get this shit done. And so I'll get quite a bit done.
But Tuesdays being Mars energy is interesting to me, I guess I do. Or ... and Monday's having moon energy and now I'm just, now I'm just going to reflect on this and think like, how does this show up? Because. Yeah, I feel like I, I think the structure of the Monday to Friday is still something that I very much attached myself to because it is honestly hard in our society to un-attach yourself and unpack that.
But also, just like the logistics of, what things are open on what days, and if you need to do certain types of appointments or shit, like scheduling things according to that, and having a slightly more flexible schedule does mean that you are often bumping up against and having friction against the way that the majority of the rest of the society is moving around.
But I like the idea of, like really shifting the concept of like, how do we look at our weeks and, being able to bring more magic into our workspaces and into our day-to-day lives and having more control over that is really lovely.
So how then, I mean, obviously it is what you do, but how does magic and ritual and divination come to play into your biz? [Laughs.] And actually, I would love for us to chat also about the collaborations that you have been doing and continue to do with Erin from Hollow Valley Tarot, because I think that's a really cool, like, overlap with one another and a really awesome combination of skills and strengths.
davis carr: [00:28:36] It's a, it's great that you brought that up too, because so much of my working relationship with Erin is based in intuition. And it's been a, the, so Erin and I are in the process of creating a tarot deck that will be launched on Kickstarter mid, end of August.
ash alberg: I’m so excited!
davis carr: No exact date yet, but some point ... I am so excited as well.
It is ... working with her has just been such a gift in terms of her ... like, our talents connecting really well, our mutual interests but also our skills. Like she's good at things that I'm not good at and vice versa which is so fantastic, but the entire collaboration has been so intuition-based.
We started working together as far back as the fall of 2019. And it started simply because we were mutuals on Instagram, mutual fans. I had heard of her Hollow Valley deck of symbols, which is an amazing Oracle deck. Folks should absolutely check that out. It is so fantastic.
And I was really drawn to her work just in general because she's an amazing artist and her writing is so evocative and symbolic, and it just really resonated with me. In the same way that just, discovering Chani Nicholas’ work and at like astrology felt like coming home, I really connected to Erin’s work.
And so she reached out to me, I think ... at some point I started, I shared something on social, “Somebody should get me Erin’s prints for Christmas!” ‘cause we were coming up to the holiday season. And she just reached out and said “Hey, we can do a trade sometime, and also would you be into like ... I like your work, like maybe I could design some images for your newsletter or things like that?”
ash alberg: [00:30:23] Cooool! davis carr: [00:30:24] Yeah!!
ash alberg: Like fan mail [chuckles.]
davis carr: So it really isn't. I, it truly is. I was like a big fan girl moment. Cause I was like, this cool person is reaching out to me. Oh my gosh. Like it really did feel like a bit of a moment for me and from there, she, I think that the first project we collaborated on, she did illustrations for a Mercury retrograde survival guide that I put together.
She did wonderful illustrations. And after that, like we just ... I think shortly after that she suggested the tarot deck to me and I ... you know, when you are a tarot reader, people will ask you like, oh dude, are you, would you ever do a deck? What do you want to do? And for me, I was like, I can't, I'm not an artist, I can't draw, I am not an illustrator.
I was like, I can't do that. So, no, I will never do that. But when Erin came along, I actually ... from her perspective, she was like I don't know the cards enough, or I don't trust my own interpretations. Like she felt that she didn't she didn't know enough to make the tarot deck. And on my hand, I was like I can't draw. [Ash laughs.] So I will never do it.
So it just worked out so perfectly. And we talk ... we've been interviewed on another mutual friend of ours’ podcast, The Living Tarot podcast by Sheila Masterson, where we dive into the details really in depth about the creation process for the deck and how Erin goes about making the images.
But one of the most amazing things about how the deck has come together is, I'm writing the guidebook, so I write the interpretations and then I also include the astrological references and I ... Erin has a number of a symbolism bases, I guess, just like descriptions of symbols. So I go through some of the resources that she's shared with me.
And then I will pull in images that I like and suggestions for symbols, and then I also write in a phrase of intention for each card, which she then will take and edit or change around based on her intuition. She turns that into a sigil, which then she uses as the basic layout for the tarot card.
ash alberg: [00:32:37] That is so fucking cool. Oh my God.
davis carr: [00:32:40] So, our magic is combining to create these cards.
ash alberg: [00:32:44] That's so cool. And also like such an elaborate and beautifully artistic and collaborative process, especially where, I mean, like y'all don't live anywhere near each other. Like she's in the Southern States on the west coast ...
davis carr: [00:33:00] She's in Nashville.
ash alberg: [00:33:01] So both ...
davis carr: [00:33:01] Still in central time, but only one over ...
ash alberg: [00:33:04] Yeah. So she's basically south ... I keep forgetting that Texas is so big and also that the continent kinda like scoots in a little bit. So it's ... and we're just very wide up in Canada. We're like, we're just this way.
[Both laugh.]
davis carr: [00:33:20] We have like two extra time zones on either end.
ash alberg: [00:33:22] It's true. Oh my god. And then a half one over on the east. Yeah. Anyway. But yeah, but like it's so cool. Also just, I mean, we shit on Instagram on an ongoing basis because it is a pain in the ass a lot of the time, but there can be such beautiful collaborations and friendships and relationships that build off of that platform.
And I think, especially for us, where there's a lot of visual work that happens, and like when you're on the artsier side of things, like having it be image-based has always been part of why I personally find it ... of all the social media platforms, and I find all of them annoying to a variety of degrees ... Like honestly, Pinterest is my favorite space to just go and veg out. And Instagram is my space where I actually connect with other humans and feel okay for the most part.
I mean, I have some pretty solid boundaries around it, but ... and it becomes stronger over time. But the ... I do very strongly believe that how visual the platform is and the fact that people do tend to show a lot of, yeah, it's a curated slice of your life, but you are showing like a, here's like a literal shot of my life. And here's my face and here's my hand and da da da. Like I do think that it makes people connect at a deeper level and also be kinder as a baseline than just the text-based applications.
Like forum spaces are the fucking cesspool of humanity, regardless of where they exist. I don't care what you say, I believe they are the cesspools of humanity. And then Facebook has very much become that same thing because it's a mix of the two, I think. And I mean, Instagram has lots of shit attached to it, for sure. And people are ... people are shitty no matter what, but I do think that there is like ... it's not slightly less shitty, but there's ... I don't know, there's just a slightly better baseline-ish in terms of the way that people connect.
And then it also becomes like, for some reason, it's like much easier to maintain those boundaries around people on that platform too, where it's like somebody comes in and is
being an asshole, you're like, nope, I actually don't need you in my life. Like, getting rid of you. This is cool.
Or if you need a break from somebody, but you don't necessarily want to like fully remove them, you're like, I just need to mute you for a little bit. And I just don't want to see, physically see, your shit for a little while until I feel like ...
davis carr: [00:35:58] Thank goodness for the mute button. I love to mute someone.
ash alberg: [00:36:02] It's so good. And I think especially like, when we're in business and especially, I mean, like when you're in any sort of like retrograde area or anything, or you're like going through whatever return and you're just like blehhh, everything just feels like bile rolling around in your stomach. [Laughs.] And people are doing things and you are like approaching the platform and can't approach it and others on it with any sort of like joy. Then the mute button becomes really great [laughs] because it's like, they're not actually doing any ... I mean, sometimes people do shitty things, but if you're opening the app and you're scrolling and literally everybody in your feed who you have at some point or other chosen to follow, everybody is pissing you off and you're feeling jealous and/or resentful of the majority of the people that you're scrolling through, maybe you need to just take a full on break from the app.
But also if there's one person in particular who keeps on like triggering shitty feelings for you, like just press mute. You don't even need to fully remove yourself from that person. You just need to visually not see them for a little bit and take a little break.
davis carr: [00:37:11] No, I totally agree with you in terms of Instagram being one of the better ones out there. And, but I think especially for business owners, that aspect of community has been so valuable for me. and even role modeling. Like being able to follow other business owners and realize oh, this is an option.
I don't have to stay in this job just because that's what I was told I should do. And what success looks like. Having those models of other ways of being, being able to connect to other small business owners and promote each other's work!
ash alberg: Yes!
davis carr: Like one of the reasons why Erin and I became strong mutuals on Instagram is because I would consistently take photos of her ... and of her deck, and post them and share my interpretations. And she would share those photos, which grew my audience. It grew her audience.
Like it's a very ... when we are, when we think about Instagram, and I think this is true for all social media, but Instagram, we're visual people.
ash alberg: [00:38:14] Yup. Yup.
davis carr: [00:38:15] This is what we do, this is where we hang out. When we think about it as, my goal is to create a community, then things like the algorithm and churning out content
and worrying about how many likes you get on a specific post, they matter so much less because you're a person trying to connect with the ... another human being!
ash alberg: [00:38:14] Yes!
davis carr: But the person who's going to become a customer and buy from you and continue to buy from you, like they don't care that only 30 people liked a post. Like they're going to see it and they're going to absorb it. Even if they never interact with it.
ash alberg: [00:38:53] Oh my god.
davis carr: [00:38:54] We can't know. So I think that's where the magic comes in too, or it helps with the trust because you can be like, everything is meant to be here for a reason. The people who are meant to find me will come. Like it helps to get you out of that rat race.
ash alberg: [00:39:10] Yes. Oh my god. That makes so much sense, especially ... I love what you just talked about as far as the way that it is ... it does make it, and now even more so with being able to like, tag people in stories and just repost a story, right?
Like they ... Instagram does a lot of stupid things that do frequently hurt small businesses, but the ease with which you can share other people's content, and then also again, because it's ... like you were saying, you'd take photos of your deck and share it and you can just tag her and then Erin can share it on her end. Like, it allows for this collaborative, very easy ... it doesn't take that extra effort to collaborate with people whose work you really love, to share people whose work you really love.
And then, yeah, instead of focusing on the vanity metrics, which realistically mean fuck all. There are people who run extremely successful six-figure businesses that have a thousand, maybe, followers. And it's because it's just not where their energy goes. Like it is exponentially better.
It's so funny. I was reading ... I came across some old, actually, Instagram planning sheets that I had. And it was, what's your plan for the month and track your stats? And my followers... this was from a couple of years ago, my followers at that time were half the number that I currently have. And I can tell you that the money that I was bringing in at that time was like probably honestly, around 20%, somewhere between 20 to 25%. And I have doubled the followers, but I am making four to five times the income.
And that's like, the numbers of your followers and the numbers of likes you get truly mean fuck all as far as whether or not that is going to translate to being a business that can support you. They are useful in terms of widening your reach, potentially, getting you in front of more people. But realistically it's less about having a huge number and more about having a quality number, where the people who are seeing you are more engaged and are more invested.
And the faces that you are getting in front of who are going to be able to help you move to the next stage or move in front of a new audience, that they are folks that actually give a shit and are invested in you. Not so much that they have ... they don't even need a big audience
themselves. If they have a small audience, but that small audience directly overlaps with the stuff that you do, then that's perfect. That's a much better use of your time.
And yeah, there's the numbers. [Laughs.] Ah, sorry. That just ... my brain now is just like, nyyeh, Instagram.
davis carr: [00:42:08] Now we're just thinking about marketing. [Laughs.]
ash alberg: [00:42:09] It's true. Yes. Oh my god. Okay. But this is a really good point. Like you, you do have a really strong marketing like background and skillset. And so, are you finding for your business that is something that is like helping, especially having been in nonprofit world for an extended period of time? It's a very different kind of way that you are doing things, even though it's with the same basic toolkit ...
davis carr: [00:42:38] Yeah. I mean, definitely the basic skills I have from my career in marketing and communications is absolutely foundational and helpful for running a business. Like copywriting, how websites work, even just understanding content strategy and communication strategies and all of those things. So I think it absolutely is useful.
And when I was working at the nine-to-five, the business was a creative outlet in a lot of ways because when you're working, especially in the nonprofit world, the content that I'm writing isn’t my own unique perspectives on the world. I'm taking content that somebody else wrote and turning it into something that meets the organizational objectives.
ash alberg: Right.
davis carr: It's much drier. And there's also, it was really nice to be able to work for myself and create things for myself, not have anybody say, “Actually we can't use that language” or “You have to do this.” Although there are times where I'm like, oh, I can really tell that I take this less seriously because nobody's checking my work. [Ash snorts.] It's ... which, you know, now I know it's a different level of responsibility. Got to check those broken links people.
ash alberg: [00:43:53] [Laughs.] Oh, god. Yeah, that's me.
davis carr: [00:43:56] But the biggest challenge or next phase is that I'm coming from working in an environment where the technology we had was very specific. So in order to do email marketing, there was a CRM that we had that connected to the membership.
Like it was ... I didn't ... I wasn't able to use MailChimp. I wasn't able to use ConvertKit. Even things like testing out and trying different features on social media platforms. Like the way that we structured all of our content, I would write content and then send it to somebody else for them to post.
So I'm used to working in a very structured process-oriented environment where everybody has a bit of their own piece. And now the wonderful world of self-employment, I do it all! [Ash cackles.] So there's definitely things like, so yeah, I think some core marketing, like more business-focused marketing stuff that I haven't had to use because of my nonprofit background.
And so that is, definitely, as a marketer, I'm excited to get to try out these things. But it also, it's a little intimidating. But that's where for me, I have found so much value in working with coaches and investing in classes and people to teach me how to do these things.
Shout out to our friend Patty's tech and business membership, The Fiery Well. That is an amazing resource for me and has been really helpful in helping me get back into the ... for the self-employed business-oriented marketing world. And also just sharing really great resources. And having a community is essential!
ash alberg: [00:45:41] Yes. Oh my god. Especially, I mean, like COVID doesn't help, but even pre-COVID ... like I would almost say that COVID has made it a little easier because It like really forced us to just look regardless of what ... where you were, to look for community. Whereas when it was possible to see people in person ...
And we are both in provinces right now that are currently under solid lockdown restrictions for good reason, like the caseload is a shit show and I think the India variant is now the primary variant for you guys. It will probably be in Manitoba very shortly.
davis carr: [00:46:22] Yeah. Manitoba is not doing great right now.
ash alberg: [00:46:24] Ohh my god. We're literally the worst on the continent right now.
[Stress laugh snorts] And it is because we have a shitty government. Anyway. Fuck Pallister.
Yeah, so, I mean, I am grateful to be running my own business that was already largely online. And so, pivoting everything online wasn't ... like it was a lot of work, but it wasn't completely starting from scratch. But like being in the position of, just needing to find other small business owners and in particular witchy business owners, I would say that is one thing that I am finding really tricky right now, is finding coaches that are at the level that I need them to be at, where their values are very clearly front and center, that they have the specific skill sets that I'm looking for, and that their community is also at the level, like not just financially, but also like mindset-wise.
Yeah, you're looking six figure business plus, and that is what you're constantly striving for, so that then when you're like asking for support, people actually have resources that can help you at that because the tools do jump up as the business jumps up. But yeah, like finding ... I feel like it was easier to find witchy biz coaches for the beginning stages of a biz, and now it's trickier and it's not just witchy.
I think also the shit that happened in the States and that then had very clear roll-outs elsewhere, especially up here, it did really fuck things over because the left went ... there's a lot of QAnon bullshit hanging out in the new age side of things. And there's a lot of coded language, which, because I am not a QAnon-er, then I don't necessarily ... like you have to like, know what that coded language is and you don't necessarily know until all of a sudden it's, “Oh, you're that? Cool. Great, no thanks!”
And especially with the overlap In QAnon going on with like white supremacy and just general bullshit, It's it feels almost like on the one hand, I'm really grateful to be able to connect with small business owners across the board. Like our biz coven is like my favorite
resource. But finding other folks who we haven't necessarily had time to build that relationship with, it feels risky these days.
And it's almost, okay, do you go it alone? You can't just call up your local chamber of commerce and be like, can you help me? Especially where the online businesses ... a lot of ... the majority of my business doesn't actually happen within Manitoba. So like, talking to the chamber of commerce may or may not actually be that beneficial. But even if I want to do that I can't because of the lockdown restrictions, right?
Like you can't just walk into an office right now and be like, help me. So yeah. I don't know. I have no idea where I was going with that tangent, but ...
davis carr: [00:49:24] You raised so many good and important points there. And I think especially, just to pause for a moment on like the con spirituality of it all, like that is absolutely something I think a lot about. Because of the nature of our work, it can really attract that spiritual bypassing, new age-y, love and light-seeking kind of energy.
And I think that's where the idea of attract-repel marketing can really come forward, and being extremely political in your social media presence in your website copy, like making sure those values are front and center because ... That's the reason why I was connected so deeply with Chani Nicholas’ astrology, is because it was fully centered in social justice.
ash alberg: [00:50:11] Yeeess. Yes.
davis carr: [00:50:12] It was really profoundly like part of her brand and part of what she said. And that for me was the opening. That was the first time that I realized, oh, you can be witchy and activisty! Because for so long, like exactly, those like weird crystal shops with old the white ladies with hair down to their ankles telling you to break up with your boyfriend and like really weird things.
And so, yeah, like I really try to just be myself as much as possible, to center those beliefs more. And I'm sure there's many ways I could be doing it more and doing it better. But really hoping that the folks who are meant to find me will see that and come forward. But it's ... I was chatting with a friend earlier today about ... she asked if I was planning to run any digital ads, and one of my concerns is that once you open up to people outside of that initial ... they've opted in to learning about you, I don't trust that the average person on Facebook is going to understand what I want to teach them.
ash alberg: [00:51:23] A hundred percent. It's so funny because like literally I, any time I find a biz coach who's ... and then “We have this on Facebook ad strategy.” I'm like, nope, I really, I am ... I have zero interest in paying you shit tons of money to then tell me how to give Mark Zuckerberg more of my money to play his fucking game that he changes the rules on, on an ongoing basis, so that I give him more money.
And then meanwhile is attracting a bunch of fucking white supremacists onto my space, because that happened to me before. And it's why I do have very strong boundaries around all of my social media, but it also is like, why my business ... I grow it very slowly. And that has been useful.
And now, as I'm like, okay, I need to scale certain portions of the business, how do I do that in a way where I am still staying in front of the people that I need to stay in front of? Which is why I'm very excited about Snort and Cackle, because I get to have these really fantastic chats with folks that I give a shit about and really love the work that they do.
And then, if they're sharing it on their channels, that then there's likely to be more alignment, but that's literally what I'm ... I want to find more spaces where I am able to collaborate with people that I like, where our values are aligned. And I am working on collaborating with folks where we give a shit about the same things and we are vocal about giving a shit about those things and then their audience is more likely to have my people in it.
And I am less likely to have to deal, or my staff will be less likely to have to deal, with those kinds of folks because yeah, like live launching. I mean, we studied how to do that. And I like, even with the live launch, I still managed to mostly maintain my own folks. And I had, I think it was like three people over the course of two live launches, three live launches, who were like very much not aligned and the emotional energy that then I expended on these people who rationally, I was like, you literally mean fuck all to my business. And you haven't even spent any money with me, but even if you had spent money, I would tell you to go away.
Don't come back. Really don't give a shit about you. Go spend your money with somebody else. And I'm like, oh no, I need to hire somebody to deal with all with this shit who like, still really cares about the customer having a really good experience, because that is absolutely important.
But also that when somebody like that comes along, they're able to just let it roll off their body in much more than my Aries and Taurus combo energy is willing. [Davis laughs.] And then I got like Aquarius in my Mercury, like it's just ... [snorts] ... boundaries, fuck off! That is all the energy that comes off of me in those moments.
davis carr: [00:54:13] Scorched earth policy when it comes to client care.
ash alberg: [00:54:16] Oh my god. Scorched earth policy. Yes. I need to like, just have a little
fire ... [Laughs.] ... FAQ. If you are this, we will tell you to fuck off in those terms. davis carr: [00:54:27] Yeah. [Laughs.]
ash alberg: [00:54:27] We will not sugar coat. [Snorts.] This is our promise to you. Otherwise welcome! Oh my god. That's so funny.
So, what is something that you wish you'd been told ... And I'm actually really excited to dive into this a little bit with you because of your background, which is different from most of the folks I've been chatting with. What is something that you wish you'd been told when you were younger about ritual and witchcraft and magic?
davis carr: [00:54:55] I think ... Okay, I have two answers to this question. The bigger one is, I wish there had been just more space in my life for ... the word that comes to mind is prayer. But I feel allergic to that word because of my anti-religious bias ...
ash alberg: [00:55:40] Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent.
davis carr: ... but it's taken me a very long time, really until recently, to get comfortable with
the idea of, no, like, praying is okay. That is just like sitting with your thoughts. That's allowed.
I really just wish that I had been told at some point that these things exist and I'm allowed to pursue them because I want to, and they make me feel good.
ash alberg: [00:55:40] Yes. Yeah.
davis carr: [00:55:42] It really just comes down to being that simple. For so long, until I found the Chani Nicholas new moon workshops, I had no structure in my life to sit down and just be with myself and journal and reflect. I really felt like I spent, look looking back on my life before these practices came in, I feel like I was just a whirlwind running around from person to person and experience to experience just outsourcing all of my thought process and reflection and emotional work and just like throwing it at other people.
ash alberg: [00:56:24] Yes.
davis carr: [00:56:25] And these practices have helped me bring it in and really get quiet and get comfortable with being with myself. And like, it ripples out in such interesting ways. When I was at my day job, one of ... The turning point, I think, with my practices came when I was at my day job and I was so much ... I was able to go to the bathroom and pause and do some quick energy work and say a little prayer or set an intention, bring a crystal, just brush the energy off me.
You know, that's when those, or when I was on ... what I used to do when I was commuting is, I would do some like shielding and boundary work when I was on the train or on the bus going to work when I was ... I imagine like walking to the office, like putting on my armor, those types of tiny things. Like that's when it really started to be integrated with my daily life.
And yeah, and just being told you're allowed to do that and it's not weird. It's not religious, it's not devilish.
ash alberg: [00:57:29] Yes. Yup.
davis carr: [00:57:31] It is, ‘cause I feel like I had it from both ends, like our over culture saying ... Which is very Christian, right? Like, as much as I'm not, I was not raised religious, I grew up in a Western white settler Christian country.
Like all of those values are deeply entrenched in us. So yeah, that was an alternative.
And then the other thing that I wanted to share which is very specific to my unique experience, but when I was in undergrad, I did a, for my first year, I did this thing called the foundation year program ...
ash alberg: [00:58:05] Yyeep. [Laughs.]
davis carr: [00:58:06] which is at the ... Ash knows this because they went to ... turns out Ash and I went to the same university! [Laughs.]
ash alberg: [00:58:13] At the same fucking time! And we know all the exact same people, but ... and probably were at like multiple house parties together and just did not clue into it!
davis carr: [00:58:22] ... were absolutely in the same room over multiple times ...
ash alberg: [00:58:27] Oh my god, so many fucking times.
[Both laugh.]
davis carr: [00:58:29] Yeah. So that's a little Easter egg for the audience. Canada really is that small, I guess.
ash alberg: [00:58:35] Yup. Oh god.
davis carr: [00:58:37] So I did the foundation year program, which is essentially a, like it's a first-year program where there's about 300 people in the program and you all, you go to lecture together four times a week and you go through the history of Western thought and civilizations. So, start like from Aristotle to Zizek, as they say.
And when I was in the foundation year program ... as I said before, I come from this extremely secular, humanitarian, social justice, social systems-oriented background. And those first couple of units in the foundation year program were really challenging for me because we started in the Asian world and then moved into the middle ages.
And that is ... Platonic thought is like the basis of our modern-day religions. Like our idea of God comes from the Greek for one and Zeus and this idea of the forms of all things. I really struggled with those concepts and I really didn't like them. And we, the further we got in the year, the closer we got to killing god, the better I felt [Ash cackles.] Like I was just, once we reached the modern era, I was like, I've made it, I'm cool, I’m good, industrial revolution happened, I'm safe.
And I went on to study the contemporary philosophy. So I really just, I really focused on that contemporary element. And then a couple years ago when I was taking ... I finally took the plunge and took the Nightlight Astrology course, which is a full year-long traditional astrological training program with a man ... taught by Acyuta-bhava Das, who's my astrology teacher.
And this program changed my life because it taught me all about astrology, which is now ... I can do it as my job! So it really was the thing. Like, when you're studying astrology, you learn so much piecemeal and you just listen to workshops and you listen to podcasts. Like you try it, you do your best to get a foundation.
But it's really difficult, especially in the ancient traditions, because that is very new to us. It's only been in the last 25 years that we have accessed those texts and started to translate them. And so I'm taking this course, this astrology course, with an ancient astrologer who’s teaching these, the fundamental metaphysics behind ancient astrology, which is Platonism!
[Ash cackles.]
The sun is oneness and god, and the moon is the many and the realm of becoming and being and the material plane. I apologize for getting like, Platonist on you all. [Ash snorts.] But Greek philosophy is astrology. I just feel if somebody had told me, back on my first day of ... “By the way, this thing you're learning is actually astrology and people actually use these ideas that you're learning about in theory, but they actually use them in these very specific ways.” I probably would have been a lot more into it!
ash alberg: [01:01:54] Yes. Yes. This, honestly, so this is the thing that drives me fucking nuts about philosophy in general, but in particular, the way that it is taught like it at Kings and in most honestly philosophy programs. Especially for me, I, my interactions at Kings were through the theater society, of course. And then I did take one really fucking amazing witchcraft history course, which like remains one of my favorite classes, but otherwise my interactions with Kings and the way that Kings taught things was very minor.
And through ... I did my double major in acting and gender studies. And the thing that I love about Dal's gender studies program is the fact that it is always, with the exception of, I think, Intro to Gender Studies, it is always a double major. So you are an ... and a double overlap in your program.
So if you're taking gender in nursing, you're literally going over to the medical side. Like you go, and if you're doing how gender presents in the law, like you're going and you're taking a law class. And so all of the gender classes are always extremely practical. You are talking quite frequently about theory and gender theory and the way that these identity politics are frequently very academic, very much just talked about, but also, and also applied very practically in the real world.
It's okay, we're going to talk about how boy equals this and girl equals this and we're going to forget about any other option. And then that is how also that presents here in the real world. And look at the way that we have literally designed fucking buildings in order to maintain patriarchal, bullshit, like all of this.
And so it was always very practical theory to me, the way that I entered into it was always, how do we look at the way theory then impacts our real lives? And then I remember getting into ... I had to, just do basic ... fill out a few credit requirements. And so I ended up taking a class that was just theory.
And I say “just” ... my teacher was Erin Wunker, who is a fucking incredible feminist. You're like, yep.
davis carr: [01:04:11] Yes. I have, I had her as a teacher. She's amazing.
ash alberg: [01:04:15] She's so fucking good. And so it was like ... I think I was just like an overview of modern theory. And so we did the same thing. It was basically like a condensed version of FIP, but it's Erin. So like literally in this, whatever it was 10, 12 week course we spent at least three days on gender theory, at least one full class on crip theory, multiple classes on race theory.
Like it was very much, we're going to actually apply the shit in real life. However, the foundation of it was not that, because that is not how theory began and philosophical thought started. And I remember sitting in those classes, I'm so sorry Erin, but I remember sitting in those classes being like, I don't know why this is relevant. I'm bored.
And I was just sitting and knitting and staring at ... Erin has this really beautiful tattoo on her forearm. And I just stared at her tattoo [snort laughs] for at least three classes. Cause I was just so checked out because the theory was not applying in the real world and like of all the profs that could make theory interesting to me in that like, very fluffy up here in the wor--, not in the world, up in the air way, Erin would have been that person and it did not happen.
So, but I remember there were ... our class, because it was Erin, drew in a mixed group than who might otherwise be in this class. And this was, it was a fourth-year class. I don't actually remember what it was called, but it was a fourth-year class. And so our class was literally half queer brown folks and then half straight white cis boys from ...
davis carr: From Kings? Yeah. Yeah. [Laughs.] ash alberg: Yeah. And like, they would say shit!
There was this one kid in particular who just said the stupidest shit. And literally half of the class would turn and glare at him because he would say the stupidest shit. And thankfully we had Erin who also was like, this is stupid shit.
And there was one point where he just would not let go. Erin was talking about ... we were talking about some theory, which was at the point where theory was still just up in the air. But then she was placing it into the context of how that philosopher, like the world that they lived in, what were the practical applications of this random era theory on earth as far as what the person who was writing it actually was experiencing? And this kid could not let go of his very straight, white, cis boy, “I only want to hear the existing canon. Why do we need to expand the canon or create more canons?”
The other canons have already been created, you dipshit. And he kept on talking about “tiger, burning bright.” And literally I'm thinking I'm sitting there and I'm like, there's no fucking tiger. It doesn't exist.
And it got to the point where something, I can't remember exactly what happened, but he, in not quite as many words, but very clearly in this way, accused Erin of reverse racism in the way that she was referring to this particular philosopher. And he realized what he said after he said it and he started to retract it.
And Erin just turned on him and was like, “No, no, no, we're going to talk about this.” He's like, “No, it's fine. Just forget it.” She was like, “Nope, you just accused me of reverse racism. And so you want me to apologize? Heidegger, I am sorry. You anti-Semite.” [Laughs.] We just continued. I was like yes, there we go!
But this is the thing with theory is that you cannot just stick it in a fucking vacuum. Regardless of whether the theory itself has a practical application, which clearly as you've
just demonstrated with astrology, like it always does, there are always ways that we can pull it down into earth. And even if we're looking up at the sky, it's like we can pull it down and say, okay, here is what is happening on earth in the tangible world.
And also whoever the fuck you're talking about and what their theory was, they also did not exist in a vacuum. So you can't just ignore for, good and worse ... like they're people. Like, the worlds that they lived in and were writing were very different worlds. And so like, when we're ... especially looking at the ancients, like you do have to take that into consideration in terms of yeah, things that they were writing, now if somebody were to write it, super fucking racist, super fucking sexist, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
At the time that they were writing actually super progressive, right? Like you have to keep those things in mind. So it's like, what were they writing in at the time? And then also now, as we are looking at it in contemporary period or modern period how does that translate? Which bits translate? Which bits like really just leave them in the ...
davis carr: [01:09:19] And what do we not want to keep? What are things that just aren't helpful? And like, all right, we don't want, we don't need it. There's so many ways that shows up specifically in astrology.
So as you say ... but there are these ancient texts. And we really have only had access to the original writing in the last 25 years because they were ancient texts that have been lost. And they've been in the realm of scholarship for so long. And it was only in the nineties that a bunch of astrology scholars got together and were like, we need to actually, astrologers need to translate this and work with it and start practicing and seeing what it means. And it's been really interesting in studying the history of astrology to see it.
It's like a game of broken telephone, how the modern tradition developed, because we had these ancient practices ... the Greeks really took, with the expansion of Alexander the Great, they colonized Babylonia. There's ... then they also take over Egypt. And so what happened when the Greeks came into Alexandria, they essentially took the Babylonian structure of the horoscope, or the Zodiac and the meaning of the planets, and then added in Egyptian ritual practices and deity worship.
And so what we consider today to be Western horoscopic astrology was the amalgam of these two different cultures that then, over history, over time, goes from ancient Greece into ancient Rome, follows the Roman empire, that knowledge is preserved and transferred in Islamic empires, where it is gloriously taken up and there's a ton of expansive developments.
There's some really interesting stuff that happens. Astrology develops during this time, which is where you cast a chart for ... Like Ash could say to me, “Where are my keys?” And then I could cast a chart for the ... exactly what you asked me, and then I can say, “Oh, they're into your bedroom.”
ash alberg: Fucking cool!
davis carr: That's a real thing that you can do with this. And then, so, so that ... but then over time as, empires rise and fall, the, a lot of that language or that knowledge in the era of
empires was lost. And it wasn't until the Christian Crusades that some of that knowledge started to go back to Europe where it was taken up, continued to be reformed, where eventually after the ... and as we moved from Renaissance into that early modern period, we almost lose the traditions entirely.
But then in the 1800s with the spiritual movement, it gets taken back in, where it then becomes associated with psychology. And psychology is the way ... because we're scientists now! We can't, we don't believe the stars actually affect everything! [Ash snorts.] But we do believe that your personality could affect things, like you could learn about the unconscious realms and archetypes, like that's really expanding.
And so astrology gloms onto psychology through figures like Carl Jung. And then, we get to the more contemporary figures like Alan Leo and Dave Brainard in the 20th century who are basically just ... Listen, I love modern astrology. Everybody's opinions are valid, but they basically were just re-interpreting other stuff without actually ... they didn't have access to the original knowledge, those texts were lost, like it's not anybody's fault. They were working with the best situation that they had.
So in today, here and now, we're in this really interesting situation where we have popular astrology, that we grew up looking at horoscopes on the backs of magazines and whatever, that comes from this very, very individual psychological perspective that says you use astrology to learn about you, and if you're bad at something, that's in your chart and there's this. And that's where we get into this new age-y thing that both of us really rally against, which is, it's so punishment-oriented and it's about, “you are damned and you are the problem and if you work on yourself” ...
Whereas ancient astrology really makes a lot of space for privilege and fortune and accidents. Like it is a pure act of random fate that I was born to the people I was born to. It is a random accident of fate that when I left the house to go for a walk today, I didn't get hit by a car. Like we don't control those things. These things just really happen to us.
And ancient astrology makes a lot more space for that and really helps us get to be much more predictive and specific. And so, but in both ways, like when we're reading these ancient texts, they are going to talk about a lot of stuff that doesn't really make sense in our modern-day context.
There's ... the third house is a great example of this. The third house in the ancient world was connected to the idea of temple, temples in the neighborhood, like your city temples, where everyday folks would go do the divine rites. And it was also connected to the hearth in the fire, like the, in the center of the Roman home, that was stoked by the power of Amelia.
And so the third house gets connected ... is the moon rejoices in the third house, and becomes connected to the goddess worship and spiritual rites and our neighborhood through the temple. Whereas if you pick up like a basic astrology 101 book that comes from the more modern perspective, you're going to read about the third house and see siblings, communication, neighborhood, like daily practices.
Those are all true and can be accurate to somebody’s experience, but the reason why they come from there is this very like, deep and ancient perspective. And so we need to like, be able to put on that ancient perspective and be like, okay, why didn’t they think about it like this? Because that was their situation.
But when I'm sitting down with you in a client session and you have your moon in the third house, it's not super helpful for me to be like, you should really be a chapel priestess! [Ash cackles.] Instead, I can say things like, your divination practice is really important to you, your daily rituals, or there ... you could have a really strong affinity for goddess work or things like that.
ash alberg: [01:16:06] Yeah. Ah! So good. Thank you for that. That is the ... I love the little history lesson. Everybody, this is why you should be getting Davis to be reading your charts. Yeah. It's an intense experience. It's really good.
So I guess that is a good little segue into what's next for you. I mean, that ... we've got the Kickstarter, and hopefully this episode will overlap with, as that is coming out. I will definitely be ordering my deck. I'm very excited about it. And but yeah, like what's next?
davis carr: [01:16:35] So many things. So yeah, Erin and I are working on the tarot deck. We are also collaborating on some other goodies that are more in the lines of like, stationery and like bullet journaling supplies. Grimoire-ing. I love tracking astrological transits. And so I really ... we're trying to work on some tools for people like that.
In terms of other work that I'm doing coming up, my books are open for astrology clients. I am working. So I offer natal chart readings, which are a really beautiful way to just to sit down and just learn all about you. You'll ... we'll talk about your big three, so your rising sign, your sun and your moon, and then every ... anything else and everything else that is really important and potent. These are just such wonderful chances to really get to know yourself in this like really authentic and real way, and see yourself reflected in ways that you weren't expecting.
And the number one thing people tell me is just, “I finally understand why I am the way I am.”
ash alberg: [01:17:47] Yes.
davis carr: [01:17:48] And why I am like this. It really, it is very profound.
I also offer birthday readings, so if your birthday is coming up or if you've had a birthday in the last month or your birthday is in the forthcoming month, highly recommend you get a birth ... a year ahead birthday reading. And so, in these readings, I will use a, use some ancient astrological techniques to see, what is the big theme for you this year?
What is the big lesson that you are going to be learning? What's the tone of the year to come? And then we also would just do like an overview of the next 12 months and all the different transits and how the astro weather is likely to impact you.
ash alberg: [01:18:29] Okay.
davis carr: [01:18:30] I ... folks can also do tarot readings with me. I'm offering tarot readings again. Hopefully by the time you are listening to this, I will be doing tarot readings with the Hollow Valley Tarot!
ash alberg: [01:18:44] So cool. Oh my gawd!
davis carr: [01:18:46] With my own tarot deck. So that's the dream. ash alberg: [01:18:49] Yeah.
davis carr: [01:18:50] I'm really excited to be doing more tarot readings. That's something that I had to let go of while I was working and doing the business, and so it's really wonderful to have those back in my retinue.
And for folks who did ... you have a reading with me, like with an astrology reading, I love working with people over and over again. And so I have follow-up readings, especially for folks, like, once you have received either a birthday or a natal chart reading from me, we can do follow ups in order to get even more detail about what's happening for you.
I like using those for focusing on transits, what's happening in the next six months, three months. But also if there's something in your chart, like relationships or family or your health, things like that, that you just really want to get more detail on, this is a great opportunity to come. And we'll just focus on that, spend an hour talking about that one thing in your chart.
ash alberg: [01:19:50] So good. Yup. Yup. Delightful. This is awesome. Thank you, Davis, you are so smart and so knowledgeable, and I love the nerdiness. It is just my favorite. [Laughs.]
davis carr: [01:20:05] Thank you so much for inviting me on and just letting me talk to you about the things that I am nerdy about. I could talk about astrology literally forever. So ...
ash alberg: [01:20:15] So good. We will make sure that all of those links are in the show notes and that people know where to be getting their decks and booking things with you, how to follow you on social, so that if you're on social and wanting to build a stronger audience and collaboration opportunities with humans who do things the way that you want to also do things, we’ll make sure that you can follow Davis.
Thank you, my love, so much for this. I really appreciate all of your time today. [Giggles.]
davis carr: [01:20:47] This is so wonderful. I am so excited to listen to the rest of your interviews. It's going to be amazing. What a fabulous season you have!
ash alberg: [01:20:54] I'm so stoked. You can find Davis online at meridiantarot.com and on Instagram @meridiantarot.
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Editing provided by Noah Gilroy, recording and mixing by Ash Alberg, music by Yesable.